Brooks Simpson: Emancipation & Reconstruction | BRI Scholar Talks

0:00 [Music] hi this is tony williams senior fellow with the bill of rights institute and we are very pleased to bring you another episode of scholar talks on today’s episode we’re very honored to have distinguished civil war and reconstruction historian brooke simpson with us and he’s going to discuss

0:21 reconstruction related to his fabulous essay in the bri textbook life liberty and the pursuit of happiness by way of introduction dr brooke simpson is an asu foundation professor of history at arizona state university and is an expert in american political and military history

0:41 as well as the american presidency specializing as i said in the civil war and reconstruction he’s the author of some 15 books including i just happen to pull a few off my library shelves america civil war the reconstruction presidents also ulysses s grant triumph over

1:02 adversity and let us have peace ulysses s grant and the politics of war and reconstruction brooks uh thank you very much for your contribution to the bri textbook and thank you for joining us today glad to be here tony great well let’s dive right in shall we can you explain some general

1:25 historical background of how the course of the war and and of emancipation helped shape differing ideas about reconstruction certainly uh i think first of all you could actually argue that reconstruction in some format began with the secession crisis and what i mean there is that the only

1:47 way to resolve that crisis one way or another was to reshape uh the union the republic uh and that any compromise that might have a headed off session or avoided civil war would in itself have been constructing uh the union anew uh and i think that’s one thing we need to understand reconstruction can

2:08 mean re-establishing what is already there restoration which is the word andrew johnson used or reconstructing as constructing a new i think that those tensions and that word you see throughout this period once war begins um i think the real challenge for the lincoln administration was to come up

2:30 with a policy uh that would look beyond military victory to the re-establishment of a reunited states i think that shaped how military operations were conducted do you want to fight with a sword in one hand but you want the olive branch and the other because in the end a war merely of conquest would leave you

2:52 leave you with a devastated area that you’d have to occupy militarily for for maybe a century or so you’re trying to restore the union you’re trying to bring people back and what i think lincoln understands after a while during his first couple years in office is that that’s going to be harder than he thought it was going to be that he’d

3:12 underestimated confederate will um and persistence he also underestimated the degree i think to which the advent of war would affect the thing that white southerners were most sensitive about which was the protection of the institution of slavery and that in turn union military victory depended on

3:33 striking at white southern morale and confederate resources and among those resources was the institution of slavery so as the war to preserve the union also becomes the war to destroy slavery that’s going to complicate reconstruction a great deal because white southerners even if they

3:54 didn’t own slaves and the majority of them did not still saw slavery as an essential part of the white southern way of life and to destroy slavery and to have african-americans as potentially equals in a post-war southern society petrified them much as it petrified a

4:15 lot of white northerners to think of african americans as equals but the more you try to secure black freedom lack equality black opportunity the more likely it is you’re going to offend a substantial number of whites southern whites and american whites who simply want the war over restore

4:36 things the way they were in a society which was fundamentally white supremacists where african-americans would have a subordinate role in that world no historian has ever framed how a policy that could have met both the goals of reconciliation with

4:56 white people southern whites bringing them back in the union restoring union how do you balance that with the need to guarantee the fruits of emancipation for african americans so it was a dilemma uh that uh daunted policymakers at the time uh and it plagues us still

5:17 not very easy no so uh my next question is what what were those various proposals about reconstruction because they there were some different plans but for for it from from lincoln uh as well as president andrew johnson and also the radical uh republicans over in congress and so how are they shaped by

5:39 the respective views of these different groups and individuals their views about the union and constitutional authority okay i think during the american civil war again abraham lincoln tries his best to restore the union by offering solutions to white southerners in part because he didn’t believe that there was a lot of support for the

6:00 confederacy that would persist for as long as it did and so the lincoln administration i think moved slowly at first on the issue of slavery because it understood that to emancipate african americans to threaten institutions slavery would offend white southerners and would redouble commitment for the confederate cause once emancipation however becomes

6:24 a war measure then the lincoln administration tries to develop ways to reconstruct civil governments in the south that welcomed the returning loyalty of white southerners and that if those governments simply accepted black emancipation destroyed slavery and came back in the union that might be

6:45 enough um and that’s where lincoln is at the end of the war itself uh because his number one objective at that time is to subvert support for the confederacy by offering white southerners a way back with the end of the war even he admitted at his last cabinet meeting

7:07 uh that the conflict having resulted in victory he now had to reassess what would be the proper sort of reconstruction policy to pursue in a post-war period doesn’t get the chance to do that obviously when he’s assassinated his successor andrew johnson view reconstruction primarily as

7:27 restoration remember andrew johnson’s a white southerner came from slave states uh represented the state of tennessee was a reluctant emancipationist uh accepted black inferiority and white supremacy to an extent that people said that he was morbid on the issue of african-american inequality

7:50 even for the time we talk about understanding people in the context of their time but even in the context of his time people found andrew johnson to be a die-hard racist a bitter ender on this issue and so johnson’s view of reconstruction would be the quick readmission of white southerners into the union

8:11 coming back on an equal footing except for some confederate leaders the jefferson davises and the robert elizi had no problem trying to prosecute them for treason but that there would be a restoration of a fairly conservative white supremacist a social economic and political order

8:31 now republicans and radical republicans were part of the republican party not the whole party but republicans wanted some guarantees for african-american rights and they also wanted um in some way to for southerners white southerners to acknowledge that they had lost that’s the section was now a dead letter um

8:54 and to understand what defeat meant um johnson on the other hand sort of encouraged a a belligerent amount of belligerence among the southern whites that really made republicans wonder who who won this war and did all those lives that northern families had sacrificed had they died today

9:16 republicans also watched white southern behavior towards african americans in the early months of emancipation the violence shown against african-americans the closing off of opportunities uh the unequal treatment of african americans and you know under a law and they begin to try to protect

9:37 african americans first by granting them equal civil rights with federal protection for those rights and federal intervention in cases where southern state courts did not provide protection for african americans and then when white southerners kept on pushing back kept on trying to restore the old order

9:59 they went beyond that foundation which would be the civil rights act of 1866 the renewal of the freedmen’s bureau in 1866 and the 14th amendment which is proposed in 1866 it’s going to be ratified in 1868 and they go into what are called the reconstruction acts where they uh basically undo the civil

10:20 governments that andrew johnson and lincoln had established during and right after the war and and reconstruct those governments with new constitutions in which african americans play a part as voters and office holders and as delegates to shape a new kind of future but still

10:41 a future that represent a return to civil government as quickly as possible some radical republicans would have preferred that the federal government would have supervised this uh former confederate states far longer and both thaddeus stephens the congressman from pennsylvania and charles sumner the senator from

11:03 massachusetts basically the south should be territorialized and placed under federal control uh until things were straightened out in such ways to preserve black rights so the restoration of civil government becomes a complicating factor because once that government is restored the authority of the federal government under the constitution to deal with

11:24 these governments especially in time of war and the civil war itself is not going to be the court officially over until 1866. uh until as those state governments come back the federal government surrenders what authority what influence it has in those states and only through

11:45 constitutional amendments and the causes that gave congress the power to enforce those causes by appropriate legislation was the federal government able to have any sort of oversight into what was going on in the american south in the late 1860s and into the 1870s especially the terrorist violence

12:06 that continued to plague the area as white supremacists continue to go after african americans and their white allies yeah and and that’s a great segue to you know that really important topic of of african americans during reconstruction so so you mentioned that there were gains

12:26 and and constitutional rights and and political rights uh for black americans during reconstruction can you just talk a little bit more about that please yeah i’ve been starting in the 13th amendment um ending slavery which is ratified at the end of 1865 does end the institution of slavery in

12:47 almost all cases except for issues of imprisonment et cetera but it basically ends the institution of slavery across the board slavery had come to an end during the war in various states through constitutional conventions and through elections um but this made the end of slavery national

13:08 even in states that had not joined the confederacy during the conflict remember there are slave states that remained in the union flavor is now destroyed across the nation then in 1866 you have a push for black civil rights equality under the law equal treatment um in courts

13:29 uh the civil rights act of 1866 uh the freeman’s bureau legislation that extended the use of military commissions in case for southern civil courts uh did not uh hand out equal justice to people whether they were white or black uh and then the 14th amendment establishes a national citizenship

13:51 uh declares that african americans are part of that national citizenship and uh authorizes congress to legislate to protect that national citizenship and that those people should be treated equally before that citizenship was primarily a state responsibility so again these three major measures in

14:11 1866 civil rights act of 1866 which provides for federal intervention cases where states do not respect equality before the law for all of their residents uh the extension of the freedmen’s bureau bill which established the provision for military commissions

14:31 uh to intervening cases again where southern courts were not treating african-americans equally those provide equality under law they’re followed by the 14th amendment passed by congress in 1866 in part to avoid a presidential veto remember constitutional amendments are not subject to the veto process

14:52 and sent out to the states ratified by 1868 establishing national citizenship uh including african americans and defining protections for that citizenship that authorized federal intervention so those three pieces of legislation taken together represent a significant

15:12 expansion of federal authority under the constitution of peace time they followed it the following year by reconstruction acts which again are an expansion of federal authority however temporary in which the federal government through the united states army supervises a process of registering voters and overseeing the establishment of new

15:35 constitutional conventions in which african americans play a part as voters and as delegates and later on as elected office holders to reshape the southern state governments again to provide equality for african-americans as well as for protective measures this expansion of federal power is

15:57 probably realized climaxes in the 15th amendment which is framed in 1869 and ratified in 1870 which says that you can’t use race color or previous condition of servitude to bar someone from

16:18 voting this makes black suffrage national republicans did this again in part to avoid any kind of obstruction of the process although by this time they had a friend in the white house with the uss grant but they also understood that many whites including whites in the north were not friendly towards the issues of blacks

16:40 equal civil rights or political rights and that the constitutional amendment process by going through state legislatures and not a popular referendum for ratification enabled congress to make sure that african americans would have constitutional protections

17:00 that a decade before no one could have imagined right great so part of the story is great constitutional protections many political games and yet on on the other hand in what ways did african-americans have those rights then quickly curtailed by this

17:20 these white supremacists regimes of violence and legal discrimination okay violence against african-americans once the institution of slavery is destroyed during the american divorce starts up in 1865 long before there’s a plan of reconstruction operation that by the end of 1865 we have the origins of the ku klux klan

17:42 uh there are major massacres of african americans in cities such as memphis and new orleans and norfolk in 1866 so violence against african-americans by white supremacists precedes republican policymaking republican policymaking is a response in

18:04 part to that violence some people do have to say the republican policies sparked that violence but in fact it’s the other way around the violence sparked more active republican measures in fact you can i think you can argue that reconstruction would not have been as radical as it turned out to be if it wasn’t for

18:26 the efforts of white southerners to subvert black opportunity freedom and liberty that the violence angered upset uh republicans in particular who kept on adopting more and more radical measures that they never would have conceived of in the first place had white southerners been much more tactful and more

18:46 accepting of a let’s say a reasonable second-class citizenship for african-americans that might have survived so once these measures take place however the amount of terrorism that goes up the amount of voter suppression and voter suppression by intimidation and by outright murder becomes very

19:07 visible in 1868 and 1869 and though the grant administration claims victory it’s important to remember that a majority of the people who were white in 1868 voted for horatio seymour the new york democratic candidate former governor of that state

19:27 who would actually address the whites who instigated violence against african americans in 1863 in new york city during the infamous draft rights interdressed them as my friends so a majority of white people actually voted for rachel seymour grant would have still won in the electoral college and by now i think we’re very familiar about how the

19:48 electoral college operates but um grant’s a popular vote majority was due to the first significant political participation of african americans in a national election and that was really important it was also important

20:09 therefore for democrats and white supremacists to try to suppress that vote by whatever means they could and during grant’s first administration they’re going to be additional measures passed to try to protect african-americans against such violence uh there’s the creation of the department of justice

20:30 under the koran administration to prosecute people who violate these laws a series of laws known as the enforcement acts to try to protect african americans but this i think is where the limits of constitutionalism at the time became more visible because people thought that there really shouldn’t be too much protection for african-americans and the

20:53 the legal threshold for demonstrating violence against blacks because they were black remained rather high also there’s a loss of public support for this and then there’s a series of supreme court decisions that gut federal enforcement uh efforts and with the resurgence of the

21:14 democratic party in congress especially in the house of representatives by 1874 there’s no opportunity to pass new legislation that might have done something and frankly there wasn’t the popular will or support to do so and and how does this struggle over reconstruction between president johnson and the radical

21:35 republicans in congress you’ve been discussing how does that lead to johnson’s impeachment andrew johnson was a master obstructionist uh and he pioneered in the use of the veto uh to try to counter republican measures in a way that his democratic heroes such as

21:57 andrew jackson had first used the veto uh during his first term in johnson’s case however republican policies during 1866 were shaped by a desire to obtain veto-proof majorities in both houses of congress in the off-year elections of 1866 as well as to circumvent

22:21 johnson’s vetoes by going through the constitutional amendment process which is not subject to presidential veto but congress could on occasion as with the civil rights act to preserve equality before the law they could actually indeed override presidential vetoes it was not the first time i viewed i’d been overwritten but the first time in such a

22:41 significant piece of legislation became law over a presidential veto johnson’s obstructionism continued in turn republicans became more focused on trying to control andrew johnson’s behavior including johnson’s control of the united states army

23:03 and a growing conflict between the president and the general in chief of the arms of the united states ulysses s grant uh and the key to this was a piece of legislation uh passed uh in 1867 along with the reconstruction act called the tenure of office act that’s at the president united states could only suspend from office

23:24 anyone who had been appointed with a confirmation by the united states senate cabinet officers for example uh and that in turn the senate would have to concur with that removal for that individual be removed and that when congress is not in session you could name a temporary replacement but sooner or later you have to present

23:45 the case for replacement to the senate and the senate might say no and you’ve got a republican-controlled senate that is not going to agree with the president except under the most dire circumstances there’s also something called the command of the army act which is a writer which says that all onto an appropriations bill and the writer said that any issue any

24:07 orders issued by the president united states to military personnel had to go through the general in chief of the armies of the united states because they didn’t want johnson to set up his own army in opposition to the united states army something johnson had talked about in various ways using military force to recognize a congress of his own

24:27 choosing as opposed to the legitimately elected congress so we we are in 1867 68 in a constitutional crisis uh johnson actually complies with the procedure outlined in the tenure of office act at first he suspends his secretary of war edwin stanton

24:48 and puts grant in as a temporary replacement grant accepts that because he’s afraid of what johnson might do um but when the senate confirms that stanton should stay in office and grant allows stan to regain the offices he’s obeying the law johnson begins to look for ways

25:09 to thwart that legislation and in the end defies it i mean that’s where johnson was when grant said he would not defy the tenure of office act johnson said i’ll pay your fine and serve your prison sentence which is not exactly uh a display of an understanding of how the process runs

25:29 for a man who said he was so committed to the constitution johnson’s repeated obstruction leads to his impeachment again indictment in february of 1868 and he’s acquitted by a single vote in large part because republicans are concerned that the person who would have become president

25:50 president of the senate remember johnson as a vice president becomes president there is no vice president benjamin wade of ohio a radical republican had radical positions on a number of issues including economic issues if he became president that might damage the party’s chances to win the white house outright in 1868 and by the spring of 1868 most

26:10 republicans had decided that grant the great war hero would be their standard bearer in 1868 so as long as they could contain johnson and get what they wanted just as well to leave johnson in office and and hope to mute his obstructionist tendencies so john johnson’s acquittal therefore we know now impeachment is a political

26:32 act his acquittal is a political and not a legal decision right and speaking of grant uh was grant’s uh approach to reconstruction any different and and did it do any better with regard to both protecting black rights as well as reconciling uh the divided nation

26:55 well we’ve heard a lot lately about which presidents have done more for african-americans than any other um but it could be said that after abraham lincoln at least in the 19th century ulysses s grant would be the most uh avid advocate of black equality and protection of black rights all the way down

27:15 into the middle of the 20th century and the irony here is that ulysses says grant is also the last slaveholder to be elected president of the united states he don’t display it in the 1850s and married into a storyboarding family but during the civil war embraced emancipation the enlistment of african americans in the united states army and afterwards had fought for black

27:36 equality before the law for protecting black rights so by the time he comes president he’s about as good uh chief executive as one could expect who could be both electable and defend black rights and he’s going to do so using military force when necessary what ha and so there are some bright moments

27:58 here and grant’s first term in particular in which the force of the federal government is mobilized to protect african americans against violence but that support falls off in the second term there’s a major economic depression that begins in 1873 and when the economy is down people think about their own

28:18 welfare not the welfare of others uh the democratic party wins the gulf year elections of 1874 and a series of court decisions really strips the teeth pulls the teeth out of the legislation that had been passed in the early 1870s a grant used to be criticized for being less than a politician

28:39 but in this case grant made a political decision he understood that political support for african-american rights was declining and that while he was not going to lead a retreat from reconstruction what he understood he was doing is is commanding a fighting withdrawal and that white northerners as well as

29:02 white southerners were not willing to embrace a policy of federal protection for african americans against white supremacist violence and that proved to be the case so it’s a a mournful retreat from reconstruction we can express the regret about it today but grant’s political realism

29:23 uh grasp that if he did not manage this fighting withdrawal that the democratic party would come into power and democrats had no sympathy whatsoever for black rights and would have in fact imposed a much more hostile regime than republicans might have overseen right understood final question

29:45 uh so why does reconstruction come to an end and what’s the result for african americans and for the country generally the future of the country reconstruction comes to an end first of all because i would argue that it was built upon a flawed foundation that the restoration of civil

30:05 governments in such a hasty manner meant that a lot of the fundamental changes that might have had to take place for african-american rights uh to be respected uh were simply missed uh that and that the federal government was not going to enforce uh uh legislation

30:27 and laws that would uh really give african-americans some protection and of course in the early days not only do you have a wreck a decision to re-establish civil governments but there’s also a decision made during the johnson administration to make sure that african-americans will not be the beneficiaries of confiscated plantation wines that could be redistributed to

30:49 them there’s also no economic basis for black freedom and african americans can struggle in that situation in the 1870s again despite this momentary expansion of federal power that we see in the late 1860s and through 1870 with the ratification the 15th amendment and then the ensuing enforcement act there’s a

31:11 decline in northern will more than anything else white southerners during the 1860s and 70s fight for white supremacy in a way they never fought for confederate independence there’s a lot of talk about how white southern will leads the collapse of the confederacy

31:32 that they become discouraged but they’re not discouraged when it comes to promoting white supremacy by whatever means necessary including these horrific massacres of african-americans especially during grant’s term over 100 african-americans killed in colt back to louisiana in 1873 uh widespread violence in new orleans

31:54 and mississippi in 1874 and 1875 more violence in south carolina in 1876 and those are the most prominent examples of such violence that although the ku klux klan as an organization fades when federal enforcement acts really pounded that organization there are other white supremacist

32:15 organizations that take their place white leagues and red shirts and the like that prove really determined foes so white southerners fight hard to win that guerrilla war that unconventional war and white northerners who were quite unified over saving the union and destroying those people who were

32:35 shooting at their sons and fathers and brothers and the like i had no such interest in using federal force in quite the same way or requesting enthusiasm or energy when it came to protecting african-american rights because many white northerners themselves harbored racial prejudices and really didn’t have that commitment

32:56 to black equality that they had to preserve the union you have court decisions that narrow the scope of federal power you have political setbacks that hamper republican efforts to legislate uh federal solutions you have an economic crisis which uh changes people’s attention other ways

33:17 you also have a war weariness that people have had enough and they think that we can just drop reconstruction and live our lives the way we want to everything will be better so by the 1870s there isn’t a lot of support anymore for those policies and to offer support for more vigorous

33:37 policies to support black rights was becoming more and more politically suicidal for republicans dr brook simpson i want to thank you very much for your insights today thank you for joining me thank you tom and we want to thank you to our viewers for joining us as well if you like this video please subscribe

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