The Marbleheaders & American Independence with Patrick K. O’Donnell | BRI Scholar Talks

0:00 uh you know it is really remarkable how um these individuals are not only diverse but i think the thing that many people miss is their unity and their unity of purpose it’s a term that i sort of phrase that i sort of came up with they were they were united um they weren’t just it wasn’t just a

0:22 you know section of african americans etc they were all together and this teamwork was forged in the in the grand banks where these men had to live in close quarters under life and death situations um you know this at the mercy of the sea for years extreme hardship which put them together

0:44 and welded them together i mean i think it’s a great story for america [Music] [Applause] hi this is tony williams a senior fellow at the bill of rights institute and welcome to another scholar talk on this episode we are honored to have a best-selling historian and scholar

1:06 patrick o’donnell with us and he’s going to talk about his new book the indispensables and i’ll read the the longest subtitle here the diverse soldier mariners who shaped the country formed the navy and rode washington across the delaware it seems like some of my

1:26 my books uh with with longer subtitles well the guiding question for today for this conversation is how did this diverse marvel head regiment contribute to the creation of american liberty and independence during the american revolution and how did the members of the regiment demonstrate the civic virtues of

1:47 courage perseverance and equality by way of introduction patrick o’donnell is a historian public speaker and best-selling author of 12 books and scores of films and documentaries spanning from the american revolution to the battle of fallujah he is a leading expert on america’s

2:07 elite and special operations units and his website is patrickk o’donnell.com patrick i want to welcome you to the show thanks for appearing it’s great to be with you tony today yeah thanks you know i i just have to really uh sing the praises of this book it’s

2:27 really remarkable and for a couple reasons one is i had wanted to write their story a couple years back i mean this really is a great story i was i was a little familiar with it but you told it in just extraordinary uh compelling detail uh and the way you wove it in uh the story of the regiment with the larger events of the the early american

2:49 revolution was was really compelling and and that’s the beauty of history is these just great stories and and telling a a lesser known sort of unknown story uh is really just a brilliant way uh to uh give us a lens into the american revolution and this diverse

3:11 regiment so uh thank you for your book well thank you tony i appreciate that yeah my um and many you know i’ve i’ve written a total of 12 books so far going on 13 and my books have largely been untold stories that tell a larger story and in many cases it’s about elite units

3:32 that are at kind of an inflection point in history or multiple inflection points where they’re able to they’re in some cases the right americans or individuals at the right time in history at the right place that really change the course of events that’s certainly the case with the uh the indispensables or the marblehead men great well i’ll help you set the theme here for for

3:52 your book uh these marvel head men uh tell us you know about their town the social milieu especially during the resistance against great britain and you know what why did you tell their story the um i told the story because um every book that i’ve ever written is a journey but every book is also

4:13 has found me in one way or another and the indispensables found me through another book a best-selling book that i wrote it’s called the washington’s immortals which is on the marylanders the marylanders had sort of a relationship to some degree with the marblehead men in the sense that they had transported them across the east river

4:35 first and then later at trenton um so there was a little bit of a connection there and then it was my um my reader so i really value uh you know one time it was i ended and directly said hey i’m writing a book about a group of men that changed the course of the revolution oh you’re writing about glover’s marblehead man

4:55 well no not quite but uh we’re getting there and then i had about 10 of those come at me from different directions and it was it was really kind of fake that said you know you’ve got to write about these men in this book the indispensables is a band of brothers if you will um sort of treatment about the main characters in the regiment but also the

5:16 town and it’s really uh some of our unknown or little known founders such as a main character in the book is elbridge gary who’s a mainspring of the early revolution and then later um in our inner during the constitution years etc it’s a really important figure where republicanism and virtue um

5:39 play you know he’s not only he doesn’t just believe it he lives it and he lives um you know trying to take these sort of abstract ideas and put him into play and he his mentor is samuel adams um and the two of them have a large um you know a really oversized role in the early

6:00 revolutionary years and you know for the for the marblehead men this is a town that’s about 30 miles north of boston but during prior to the revolution it was the second largest town in massachusetts a great deal a massive portion of the massachusetts economy at the time

6:21 came from cod fishing and marblehead was the was uh the cod capital of north america effectively i mean and fortunes were made on cod it was harvesting or you know fishing in the grand banks um and then bringing it back and then selling it uh in in in the various trade routes and

6:41 trading for things and this made massive fortunes in marblehead um but you know marblehead gets is uh the the the royal government is interferes with marblehead in many ways and this causes a lot of tension especially at the early stages um this

7:03 is many many years before the revolution and the the opening scene of the indispensables is um is the pit packet and the pit packet is being boarded by the royal navy and the royal navy is not there to you know to say hello they’re there to basically kidnap everybody on board and impress them and

7:24 this is a big deal you know consider you think about you having a life with a family and everything else in a really a great career you’re a sea captain but no suddenly you’re impressed and you’re basically put into slavery and pay to pittance in the royal navy and you don’t get let go effectively for the rest of your life this is a major major problem of interference

7:44 it really roils the town it upsets the people and then there’s bureaucracy that’s taking place they’re told that they can’t do certain things and how that they trade and it just continues to ratchet up and um you know i mean there’s a lot of sort of current events that take place in this book for instance the town in 1773-74

8:06 is hit by a virus which divided divides the town politically between those who are loyal to the crown and the patriots and that the effect of that is just is remarkable they they come with a potential solution of creating a vaccine hospital like a hospital to vaccinate or inoculate the population

8:29 and um it goes you know basically very poorly the the loyalists in town enrage the mob they burn the hospital the ground the people inside it they torch boats i mean the houses of the main characters of this book are surrounded by an angry mob it’s really you know some extraordinary scenes which

8:49 have a profound effect on elbridge gary and john glover and the other main characters of this book very good and and as mariners as a town who who lives by the sea uh most people don’t really think of the importance of gun power

9:11 uh but in in the american revolution but because they’re mariners and and they’re trading all over the atlantic they’re able to secure those supplies of gunpowder uh but also they engage in sort of some of the fighting uh and resistance against general gage uh trying to disarm them

9:32 and take away their their arms so tell us a little bit about this is an extremely important point uh tony that i don’t think many scholars have really um captured but all of the key events if it where the the revolution switches from a political revolution to kinetic they run

9:55 through the marble headers in one way or another they’re either supplying the powder or they’re they’re fighting etc but in in 1774-73 powder was the unum necessarium it was the one thing that was so critical and they had none of it at all it was it was it was incredibly scarce and i

10:18 mean this i have to emphasize this point a single barrel um you know a couple large cannon that that they’re powder hops i mean it doesn’t go far and there was no organic production at all in the in the colonies for the most part everything had to be imported there were a number of royal decrees that banned the importation

10:40 and the british recognized this we had guns we didn’t have power specifically went on targeted operations to disarm americans and he knew that if he disarmed the american colonies it would just be um there wouldn’t be any kind of revolution at all and it’s

11:00 the marble headers that play a key role the the bulk of the powder at lexington and concord was was um obtained by the marble headers and they have a crucial contact that’s really been forgotten in history in many ways it’s with a major trading house in spain and this um relationship that they have

11:21 for 20 to 30 years is what cements a foreign alliance with spain that’s really never been highlighted and the marble headers convert their fishing lines their trading lines into military support supply routes at the early stages of the revolution and later on and this powder is absolutely critical

11:42 and essential right and another really important role that plays you point out in in the book is that they’re the help form the foundation of the us navy and and therefore american independence and nationhood uh how how do they do that how are they this is a this is a really important

12:02 story because the navy is begins as a fishing boat i mean that it just seems sort of preposterous to think about it the a fishing boat is going to go after the mightiest navy in the world but the usa now the mightiest baby in the world has his very humble origins as john glover’s fishing boat which

12:24 general washington it’s many in many ways it’s washington who’s a are the primary driver and architect behind the navy he recognizes that a navy is is is important because hey maybe we can capture one of those british supply ships that’s loaded with powder um if we can pick it

12:45 off with a small um fast scooter that the royal navy might not be able to catch and that’s what he does he basically um authorizes john glover in the marblehead regiment who he farms an important bond at cambridge um is where his headquarters is located it’s the marblehead men that initially guard washington at the vast

13:08 house and in this they they form a tight relationship which also forms something else called the guard or the lifeguard and it’s the um this effectively the the accident of the marblehead regiment that becomes the leader of the lifeguard and forms it and everything else and brings in several men but the navy

13:28 starts in the summer of 1775 through washington’s orders to glover to outfit the ship in the ship is the hannah it’s a rotting fishing tub that glover has and they he rents it to the united states um for you know roughly 75 i think pounds per month and they outfit

13:51 they put the uh they you know carpenters come on they they um they put holes in the side of the hull so that they can put tannins in there and they outfit it as a vegetable or and the early navy story tony is just extraordinary it’s a um it’s not necessarily glorious all the time there’s mutinies there’s

14:11 they invade canada with auto authorization it’s um it’s it’s a very extraordinary and colorful story right this is all just so so remarkable and so interesting and but what’s also very dramatic is this point during the battle of new york in which the army has to escape from from long island over to manhattan and and

14:32 otherwise would have been just completely lost in the revolutionary war ends and of course who appears at this american dunkirk to save the day the the marblehead regiment so so tell us about that compelling this is this is um sort of the the way that i was able to my introduction to glover’s men was at the battle of

14:53 brooklyn where i wrote about washington’s immortals where they make an epic stand that’s an hour more precious in our history than any other that buys them time to retreating to the fortifications at brooklyn heights the british have us surrounded this is a point in our history where the entire revolution could come to an end by them

15:17 crushing us by attacking those sports but a series of things take place there’s a nor’easter which sets up some atmospherics and washington decides rather than to stand and fight to wisely evacuate and he calls upon his most experienced mariners the marblehead men to make that crossing

15:41 and it’s it it’s an incredible story we are so lucky that it it worked i mean glover and his um his men had zero time to prepare they said okay here are the boats make it happen and they do it they transport over 9 000 american troops in the dead of night um

16:03 you know across the swirling east river which the tides in multiple cases they don’t work but the mariners have something going for them not only they diverse but they’ve worked together as a team for years at the grand banks the most dangerous waters in the world and they’re able to tackle this mission

16:23 impossible and then of course i mean there’s a providential fog that sets in exactly at the right time in the right place to screen the movement of glover’s boats the winds don’t favor the british navy which could sail up the river and destroy our horse at any time but it doesn’t happen and the marblehead men

16:43 basically pull off and miracle the american dunker and save the entire army and potentially the revolution right and and but wait there’s more there is it just doesn’t end i mean they’re in so many key inflection points that’s why i call them the indispensables and it’s not necessarily the things you think about

17:04 i mean my favorite is the the virus that hits the town that divides everybody politically which is bad people die but in the end it’s the training that saves washington’s army by inoculation through dr bond right and and really you know washington untold story that nobody has ever gotten

17:25 into right right and and so uh but perhaps their finest hour washington’s finest hour one of the finest hours of the american revolution to quote churchill in which the the marvel head men just demonstrate just remarkable courage and perseverance is of course washington’s crossing of the delaware on

17:45 the stateful night enables him to win these great victories of trenton and princeton and again they’re right at the center of it and and make this this great victory possible indeed i you can’t this is you know you couldn’t make this up but this is the true story that’s just it’s

18:06 so extraordinary because this is our darkest days as a nation things are falling apart politically you know washington’s army has sustained one disastrous defeat after another you know politically the times have turned and um time has turned and the times have turned because people are turning

18:26 against the um the patriot cause and they’re they’re basically signing up for pardons from lord howe new jersey is conquered winter is setting in uh the economy is a disaster it looks like it’s hopeless the biggest thing too is the enlistments are all about to expire washington’s army is about to evacuate

18:48 evaporate so he makes a bold strike at trenton to take out the outpost of that’s man by the hessians of johann raul who is an extremely experienced and able commander um but that night they they they cross and the river is is treacherous it’s you know it’s ice filled there’s there’s

19:10 snow and sleet it’s impassable for the other this is an important point that a lot of people don’t realize there were several thrusts of washington’s army that attacked trenton that day or that night and they failed the only portion that that succeeded were the boats that were manned by the marblehead men because they were the only ones that

19:31 had the skills to get it across and they were able to cross the river and um and then attacked trenton and you know the story doesn’t end there trenton could have easily been a typical battle during the revolutionary war where they engage each other and then they melt away that’s how it normally worked but at

19:53 trent it was a amazing a double envelope where they were able to envelop uh rawls garrison and it’s because the marblehead men captured as petey cree uh creek bridge which was the crucial escape route for raul’s men had they wisely escaped after the first contact or a little bit of contact but instead they stood and fought but they stood and

20:14 fought because they had no choice that escape route was closed thanks to john glover who captured not only the bridge but the high ground across and positioned canon so it was an impossible escape yeah you know i’m just always amazed as you point out now in the book just that they got across the delaware they didn’t lose a man uh they got horses across and and and

20:37 and guns and and all those uh man it’s just under such dire conditions in this nor’easter and nice chunks through the river uh you know the the flow of their water must have just been torturous to to get across and yet they don’t lose anyone i mean it’s just so remarkable and then they also and i mean this is another thing that i think people don’t

20:58 realize is just the condition of the army many of these men had no shoes there really was bloody footprints i mean just think about the sacrifice there of of these americans it’s just incredible it’s awe-inspiring right and you know what’s also really awe-inspiring um is something we haven’t tapped into

21:19 yet uh exactly who comprised this this regiment uh from marblehead because it really showed remarkable diversity for the time across social classes uh whites of all social classes there were free blacks in the regiment uh there were native americans and so my last question

21:40 is how does that diversity how does it become a source of strength that helps win american independence and and really provide a great model for the future you know it is really remarkable how um these individuals are not only diverse but i think the thing that many people

22:01 miss is their unity and their unity of purpose it’s a term that i sort of phrase that i sort of came up with they were they were united um they weren’t just it wasn’t just a you know section of african americans etc they were all together and this teamwork was forged in the grand banks where

22:23 these men had to live in close quarters under life and death situations um you know this at the mercy of the sea for years extreme hardship which put them together and welded them together i mean i think it’s a great story for america in many ways because it’s about instead of

22:44 it it’s they were greater than you know their parts instead of speaking their the whole was greater than the sum of the you know that they that’s an extraordinary story in and of itself how those individuals work together um as a unified team to overcome the

23:04 you know greatest army at the world of time the greatest navy and then also an unforgiving environment in many cases um an economy that was just horrendous um you know where they’re they were starving in marblehead after the as the war was progressing and i captured the stories of the women there that literally go on a food riot which is sort of

23:24 a bit of a um an unknown story as well um there’s there’s so many aspects to it that i you know that are really quite extraordinary and then also um important i think to today all right patrick o’donnell uh the new book is the indispensables congratulations and and thank you for

23:45 sharing that uh tremendous story with us today it’s been an honor to be with you today thank you tony i really appreciate it if you liked this episode of scholar talks please be sure to subscribe to our channel and offer your comments below we offer new content every tuesday and thursday including scholar talks like this one

24:06 homework help videos for students and primary source close reads and please be sure to join our conversation on social media including facebook twitter and instagram and see the ways that you can get involved with bri thank you