Tenth Period | Federalism’s Moment: Exploring the Federalist Papers and Today’s News

hello and welcome to another episode of the Bill of Rights Institute’s 10th period I’m Kirk Higgins I’m the senior manager for education at the Bill of Rights Institute and I’m joined this week by my colleagues Gary and Rachel hi good to see you so this week last week we talked about I guess was two weeks ago we talked about America in crises and since that point the crises has unfortunately continued and gotten worse and we’re all dealing with that we’re all still at our homes because of the cocoanut 19 situation and and and we’ve been sort of working at observing a lot of what’s been going on and as part of sort of observing and thinking about how it is that we can incorporate a lot of the lessons that we’re seeing unfolding we thought it’d be a good chance to take a step back and look at sort of the foundational philosophy behind our government which ordinarily wouldn’t be that exciting but I happen to be really passionate about the Federalist Papers I think I think you underestimate our audience with this audience it might always be exciting to talk about the origins people do King us a lot about it right and this really is the moment right I mean we doctor among ourselves that you know right now you really get to see all the different levels of governance of interactions in society I don’t think I’ve ever seen more news about States and decisions that are being made in per state in a very very long time if ever well and I think I think it’s so crisis driven usually like you’ll see you’ll hear about a state governor like if there’s a major catastrophe or something but it’s one-off it’s not all the different governors of all the different states constantly in front of the cameras talking about what their state is doing and how they’re joining or not joining other states right yeah that’s right I think again sort of thinking about it from a from a foundational kind of point of view I think it’s interesting at this moment because the lessons are very close right for students a lot of times we’re thinking about abstract concepts of other crises that have had a long time ago and although it’s unfortunate there are a lot of examples right now that you can kind of sink your teeth into and so whether or not we dive into you’re able to dive into with your students now some of these lessons with the Federalist Papers we think over the next year two years few years kind of taking a first look at the Pharaohs paper and papers and drawing out some day’s lessons it could be a really enriching activity to do with your students and so with that we’d start I guess with just a little bit of an intro about the papers and then the ones we’re gonna walk through today so I’ve picked a selection of them not at random but sort of at random but what we tried to do here is both look at sort of an overall view of what the project of the Federalist Papers was because it was a complete project even though they were published sequentially as individual

papers but then also to time into news events that we thought you know brought out some of the themes of these papers and in particularly the Bill of Rights Institute we’ve been talking a lot about the presidency in the Constitution lately so we’re doing a little bit of an emphasis on the executive branch and I’m looking particularly at at the powers of the executive partly too because the way executive agencies work now obviously they’re in the news a lot so things like the CDC and even FEMA in some cases really in the news and those are all part of the executive branch and so it’s it’s interesting to look at the papers from that point of view to what those behind so sort of with that Gary and I were chatting the other day and it occurred to me to court a sort of lay out the overall plan of the papers and it I don’t think it was the first time that Gary had heard it but it was at least something that was a little bit novel and interesting to step through so I thought I would kind of talk about what what Madison J and Hamilton were doing of in 1787 and 1788 and why it is that they wrote 85 these things why could they have just done it like two or three but but overall the approach obviously these are taking place during the ratifying convention so each state was called to ratify the Constitution the Constitution stipulated that there had to be nine of the thirteen states that ratified and in one of the most biggest states so they that they needed to get over the hump of ratify the Constitution was New York in New York also happened to be very contentious there’s a lot of I’m anti federalists support there and so there was concerns that New York might be on the fence of a ratification and so Hamilton Madison and J got together the John J Alexander Hamilton James Madison to write these 85 papers I mean the way that is really interesting so they start off and we’ll dive in the first panels here a second but they start off with this sort of invitation to the people of the United States not just of New York although that’s where it was published but to the people to decide how it is how it is that they would go about ratifying this Commission and and so then they go immediately from there into talking about the Union so not only do we want to have this new constitution that’s being put forward to you but it’s important that we preserve this union of states and then from there that we can talk about well the reason we need to preserve that Union or all these benefits oh and by the way the arms of Confederation which this Constitution is replacing we’re holding up that Union and these are the dangers that could show that wouldn’t come from that that then necessitates new powers to this Constitution so then they step through what those powers are in the several papers and then move from there and to justifying how those powers were working concert together to continue to preserve this system it’s this Union which they’ve now justified from there they go into more of those particulars some checks and balances and then finally they step through each of the branches so they look at the legislative branch both House and Senate then the executive branch the judicial branch and then they wrap up in the last couple of Federalist Papers with some loose ends as I like to call it most famously in Federalist 84 is Hamilton’s rejection amongst other things about the need for a bill of rights in the Constitution so

there is a plan to it I think often times we’ll hop around and we’ll dive into Federalist 10 or 51 because I’ve got some really juicy bits and we’re gonna dive into both of those but looking at the overall plan makes it really interesting to see how it is that Hamilton and Madison who wrote the majority of papers really conceived of this and what they thought they had created in the Constitutional Convention so with that I think we can dive into the first Federalist paper yeah solutely and so there is a copy of the readings that we’re gonna put in the comments and then also linked to on our website so you can follow along with our page numbers and and it’s all referenced and then we’re also show you some of the some of the excerpts on the screen here so you can follow along that way so you look you love both of them so you can’t quite read what’s on the screen you can also dive into the the PDF that will link to yeah and can I follow up I think it’s really interesting you’re right looking back on it often people will seek out elements of it but but there’s something so striking about the idea that there had to be a logic in the way that it was published and put out there how do you recommend someone read the Federalist Papers well if ever we could read it start to finish that would be great oh I think it’s good especially for students if you can get a few selections from sort of those different passages you get a really good picture for the entirety of of the of the project that they were undertaking I think one of the things that often happens when you only select a few papers here and there is you get sort of this mechanical feeling for the Constitution and in third rows fifty-one we’ll talk a little bit about the auxilary precautions that are in the Constitution to protect the to keep the government on track basically but those are exhilarate precautions aren’t enough and I think what what Madison really brings out a lot and Hamilton a good bit as well is the the human element that’s at work here and in looking at different selections of the Federalists starting with one I think is really important but then even looking at a few that we’re not going to touch on like 37 and even all the way up to 84 but looking at a few of them that color how it is that the logic of what those other pieces were building in the Constitution and what’s required of us as individuals really gives a complete picture but I think I think there’s no harm either and just looking at one at 10 and 51 I mean they’re there they’re the the staples for a reason and they’re really powerful and they sum up some really amazing arguments and are well worth diving into with your students if you have the opportunity right it’s still looking at the first Federalist paper here you know I called it’s the invitation but it’s important to to note that at the beginning of all of these each paper says to the citizens of the state of New York right so it’s a Bolden right there it’s not to the legislature and it’s not to certain individuals or to even as you might see during the American Revolution to King George right so it’s up to the Governor of New York who does get a bad rap Gary and I were joking about that for beforehand – that the governor of New York only gets a it’s called out in the papers but it’s

2,000 New Yorker it’s a it’s it’s noteworthy that you know this is where these conversations are happening and everything like that and it’s an interesting part of the persuasiveness and the the attention that I think is yeah absolutely I always I always thought that that recognizing the the position that New York held in the Federalists in the Federalist debate was always again I’m from New Jersey so biases but it was that there are there even at that time there was such a diversity of opinion but you had to be really careful with how you conveyed your arguments and with the rhetoric that you were using because you had you know old families that had been there for generations and you had new immigrant families and you had commerce and you had the farmers and so New York has always been in kind of this has been this incredibly this place of incredible diverse opinion and so doing things in New York will will or arranging your arguments to appeal to New Yorkers is a particular kind of thing where you can test that lots of different ideas yeah absolutely and in fact these papers although they were published in newspapers in New York were being sent to all the different states in order to shore up their own ratification conventions ratifying conventions most most notably Hamilton was sending these papers directly to George Washington and saying hey use these in Virginia as you’re going through your ratification debates because they’re gonna be really that they really summarize things well yeah and in this first federal so you get sort of a flavor for what’s going to come further on down but also in underlining of the preamble of the Constitution which says we the people but my favorite line from this and probably the most famous one is down there sort of the middle of the paragraph but it says it has been frequently remarked that it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country to decide by their conduct in example the important question whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection and choice or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force so as a historical moment this is really powerful because this is you know one of the first rare instances of a country coming together to decide how it is going to be governed right and it’s a conversation amongst those people or at least those who were qualified to participate with property qualifications and also there was restrictions on on who was allowed to participate government but though of those people who are participating they were being called upon to deliberate and decide through their representatives whether or not this system is going to rule over them and they’re going to make this pivot or not which i think is really remarkable and just down underneath that you then get a sense for what part part of that means and I think the second

paragraph is is really interesting and I included it just because I think it’s reflective of democracy throughout time but it’s basically Hamilton’s I should say Publius they all wrote him in the same student him and that was deliberate so that not one person would be assigned to their motivations and also as rachel was mentioning a good rhetorical flourish to as it’s referring back to a roman historical figure who they were trying to evoke in their writing but he basically just goes on this screen about how everybody else that talks to you except us is gonna be manipulating you don’t listen to them they’re gonna be really loud and they’re gonna say that we’re doing this for bad reasons but we’re not in fact they’re doing it for bad reasons and we need this new energetic government in order to prevent them from stealing your rights which were certainly not going to do in the hamilton has a fully flowery language in the way he goes through that but i think it’s really interesting that look we’re going to decide and by the way the reason that it’s hard for those people to do that is exactly move it Hamilton’s doing right here is because people assign different motivations there is no outside governing structure or no hierarchical structure that’s determining for you how things are going to go it’s about us coming together as human beings and deliberating in that act of deliberation is really difficult yeah I think that you know there are lots of different ways to approach putting documents in front of students right there are there’s there’s pedagogical tools there’s Socratic tools there there are all these different things to do I find that that section right in the middle there and it’s starting with an enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of the gun of government will be this section this argument down to the end of the paragraph you could spend I can easily so I taught mostly middle school mostly eighth and ninth grade I could spend an hour with my students just understanding what the argument here is and asking them whether or not it’s true right do you agree with Publius that it is it like this the the zeal for energy and efficiency do what do you agree with do you agree that a zeal for energy efficiency is a path to despotism do you agree with so once they understand this then asking like is this true is a whole other level of questioning and I think that there’s this is what I love about the Federalist Papers and why it’s like kind of tragic that we don’t in especially in the gen ed classes don’t get enough don’t get much time to spend with these documents because they’re so there’s so much richness in so much of the language but it takes so much time to pull it out for the kids I think it’s really interesting how you’re sort of sitting out that it’s a it’s an interesting opportunity for students to begin to grasp the idea of what we often refer to as like meta writing right or metacognition this idea

that he starts off not with like here’s the government idea I’m trying to sell it to you but rather here’s the logic behind it do you see even the idea of conceiving of government itself is something I need to walk us through a little bit or or to discuss like the idea of logic and as you said on the earlier page almost this idea that you know we have an opportunity to create something that comes from I’ll throw out the word prudent prudence and reason but if this doesn’t work not only does the government we’re building that word but what about even our ability to design something within reason does it have to be organic I think this whole section as you were just saying rachel is very much like that like we could even contemplate the task at hand in an interesting way yeah absolutely and and I think I mean even even dealing in energy and efficiency and what Hamilton’s talking about there is really powerful right because he’s really talking about latitude and then the ability to act on that and throughout the Federalist Papers what they’re what what they’re inevitably arguing for is a government of limited ends meaning limited goals but unlimited means to achieve those goals so for those discrete purposes they want to have a government that’s as energetic as it needs to be to accomplish those ends and it’s up to us as people to determine whether those are the right ends or not and and I really like what both of you said there because I think what what Google is is ultimately doing here is teaching us about the the government that we have and I think him acting in the role as teacher here is actually really interesting because he’s he’s trying to rhetorically walk through the people in the United States this complex thing that they’ve poured a lot of thought into and and that it’s going to be ultimately arguing that it’s gonna be beneficial for them and so then jumping down you know we’re talking about setting up this grand plan going to Federalist 10 which again is one of the most famous ones but I think there’s another sentence here that that can really be chewed on by students for for a long time and I think we included a good bit here and the Bill of Rights Institute actually has these really great annotated versions of several of these which we’ve linked on the documents and that have our annotated and also they’re just excerpts and a little bit smaller than the full paper which makes a lot more approachable in some ways but but my favorite line in Federalist 10 and it’s one that I’ve really been thinking about a lot lately especially as you know there’s been a lot of conversations about the role of government in faction and everything else and we might be missing Federalist 10 are we on our slideshow that’s okay we are missing Federalist 10 well I’ll throw it it’s all throw it out there anyway but the line is that it could never be more truly said then of

the first remedy that it is worse the remedy is worse than the disease so that goes on to say liberty is to faction what air is to fire an ailment an ailment without which it instantly expires but it could not be less folly to abolish Liberty which is essential to political life because it nourishes faction and it would be to wish the annihilation of air which is essential to animal life because it imparts to fire its destructive agency so although it’s a little bit harder to follow along on that without the that document front of us that that line always just stands out to me because it is the diversity to that Rachel’s is talking about like there’s something inherent within us as diverse human beings in every sense of the word we all have diverse opinions and views on everything from politics to cooking to religion to what television shows we’re watching what we’re all in isolation that in and of itself means that we’re going to have disagreements inevitably and so what Madison is outlining in Federalist is less that there is no that there is an avoiding of that sort of natural tension which will come out but it’s more controlling what affects that faction is able to have so we’re going to disagree but how can we channel the disagreement in a way that is going to be effective in positive and overall trend toward the common good as opposed to our own individual wants needs and desires yeah I don’t know if I could react to that but that was that was really that one always really struck me because you often hear the term human nature and people posit well this is human nature or that’s human nature I think that part of Federalist 10 is so clearly even making the analogy of nature with fire and water and things like this right it’s it’s rather than to say like this this thing the factions is going to happen so there are a couple of choices you can either extinguish it somehow or you can allow something in which becomes I would say would you say it’s equality but right this is the way to deal with it in some ways really much more powerful way to put it to say like we’re not gonna design a way that there isn’t you know disagreement or at least diversity of thought but rather what do we do about it and I think that was a really interesting approach to incorporating human nature and in a powerful way that we didn’t need to be self sold on the concept I found out what happened and that was my fault I put together the slideshow I didn’t change the header so Federalist 10 is here it’s just only by line number not my header well no problem but we can touch on just really quickly because I did see the one news article that we included in here which is one just ripped straight out of the headline recently and I think it’s just had a picture of main.c Pelosi right and so again not needing to get political but just thinking about the idea that look this is this is faction infection isn’t

inherently bad it’s there are different people who are looking at things from different perspectives and the idea that there is now two trillion dollars going out into the economy means that there’s different people in our government that want to oversee that and so this is a way that our government is allowing for different factions and perspectives to function together in a way that is ultimately healthy even though a lot of what we see is sort of the difficult work of government because government is especially popular government is is extremely difficult we have mentioned efficiency before and it’s it is efficient well it’s not efficient right and that can be frustrating to us but it can be efficient when it needs to be and so our government acted really quickly relatively speaking when that’s when the pandemic was emerging which is interesting again to talk about what that efficiency means but now we’re getting to a point where we boom we want to say okay well how are we all going to watch over the this very dissonant amount of money I’m going into the new into our communities and into our society and so this is a just one example we could promote many others but this is just one example of showing this paper sort of inaction yes I mean is the close reading so if I could jump in with a tiny little thing I thought it very striking one word that appeared in this right there in the top there and in Federalist 10 which is if you see it’s a little tough to see but it says where there’s money there’s also frequently mischief and Publius mentions the same word mischief in Federalist 10 and I thought such a specific word about what happens with large groups of people and decisions being being made yeah yeah absolutely and in this in in faction can lead to mischief action can lead to bad things faction can also lead the really good things it’s just not inherently one thing in the other and so we you know the Federalist at least are arguing the papers that we’re setting up a system that tries to control the effects of what that faction is doing to try and orient it towards good outcomes and so one of the ways it does that is in Pharaoh’s 39 and I’ll step to this quickly if you want to know more about Federalist 39 we have a new series out called bright and early where Rachel Gary and I actually just had a really rich conversation specifically about photos 39 in different ways that we’ve been interacting with it but Pharaohs 39 is great in that it’s it’s Publius going through how our federal system works in federalism is this strange concept that’s sort of I mean it’s it’s hard to understand sometimes for us to know what level of government we need to turn to you for what and what’s able to do what particularly during the pandemic as we were mentioning before we’re hearing more about state governors it more about state legislatures and even city and town rules that we ever have before it seems like and so this is very much on the front of the mind and what he’s doing here is so he’s talked through sort of the need for Union that why it

is that the government needs the powers and energy that it has and now he’s really defending in saying look you know a core part of what our government needs to be is Republican because we’ve determined that this is the best mode of government that we can possibly have all the state all the thirteen states had Republican governments of some variety and here he’s defending the new constitution is creating a Republican government but then also going into how it’s both national and federal meaning it’s the whole country but it’s also the individual state governments are still protecting those and then he steps through the different arguments in ways that the structure of the government and not only the structure but where it derives its power from are rooted in both of those things I found this this first paragraph that we excerpt here to be really powerful again rhetorically but also this kind of exhortation to each individual to be self governed that’s a term we talk about a lot at the Bill of Rights Institute self governed in self government but he calls on the genius of the people of America which you know I think that so you mentioned our series bright and early which is a new web series that we’ve developed for students so if you’re looking for a you know 15 to 25 minute chunk of time to drop into a LMS or one of your classrooms please go to our YouTube channel we have that up we have three episodes out now we do them every Tuesday and third we launch from every Tuesday and Thursday talking about current events and just getting our take and and what what students can do in response to those current events in their homes and in their communities but this idea of the genius of the American people what’s reconcilable with that what is the fundamental genius of the American of the people of America that he’s referring to and then also this idea of the Honorable determination which animates every voter II of freedom to rest all of our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government and so I think there’s a lot of questions right now in the news about mankind’s capacity for self-government right that’s what a lot of these questions about federalism in the news about how the different agencies are making recommendations and then how the states and jurisdictions are taking the recommendations and input and implementing them or imposing them you know there are certain communities which feel very much like they should be able to make their own decisions and be self governed in particular ways and there are other communities that feel that self-government means that we tell electively make decisions for all of us and that is what self-government is it’s not an individual governance but a collective government and so I think there’s there’s a lot again to dissect in just these couple of sentences at the beginning of 39 right absolutely yeah that’s the the fun of close readings like this is you know just going back and kind of let me look at one sentence you know that each one is really so rich I mean I’m looking at the the second section here in the second paragraph here you know and and even after years

of teaching you know and trying to hosting certain ways you know students concepts of of groups and and and dissected Mis and it’s like the idea of federal government for my students often was this external thing that was somewhere else you know oh you’re talking about the federal government those are the people who live in that area and they worry about these things but really having the word Confederacy and this idea of unity in a way you know not unity being the same but unity and being connected is a really interesting part that you can keep seeing it but then even rereading it over and it’s like yeah it’s a different mental image of what government is much like you were saying yeah absolutely and just to kind of tie this into what we were just talking about in the next paragraph down he says you know first in order to ascertain the real character of the government it may be considered in relation to the foundation on which it is established to the sources from which it’s Ordinary and powers are to be drawn and to the operation of those powers to the extent of them in the authority by which future changes in the government are to be introduced so again he’s using his logic to lie out lay out his argument but then he’s immediately talking about look we’ve called ratifying conventions where the people of the state have determined how those ratifying conventions will be formed and how it is that they’ll vote to approve or not approve this constitution so he’s really saying look it’s really both and here he’s calling on us as individual citizens to create that other thing that’s going to exist outside of them and not necessarily rule directly over them because there are media representatives in the states well in many instances but it still has that overall sort of larger umbrella that is going to unify us keep us together and work toward it in these limited ends that the national government has been designated and so here again Publius is being really careful to keep exactly – what when you both were highlighting which is this genius for the American people to have self-governance and using that to justify that look we’re not consolidating here isn’t one big national government we’re preserving the system that allows you to have as much of a voice as individuals and as states as possible within the plan so in that we also featured another kern event here just touch on it really quickly the Bill of Rights it’s actually doing a lot on federalism lately but this one article kind of stood out it’s really interesting if you’re interested in checking it out we also did the US and a couple weeks ago I think already talking about federalism and just how it is that again individual states are responding and how the how our system is allowing for that to happen and I think after this crisis is over with I think there’s gonna be a lot of questions about whether or not that balance of power was done correctly should the federal government have done more should it have done less was it was it the appropriate level of intervention I think all of those kinds of conversations are going to come about so it’ll be really

interesting to dive back into these and look at these these articles that are being written in the midst of crisis I think a little bit further down the road mm-hmm so then jumping into Federalist 51 so again we seem to be going all over the place right but 51 is interesting because we’re this is on the edge of where he starts diving into each of the individual branches so we’ve now set up the system we know what powers it has everything’s great and now we’re going to dive into exactly what it is that functions within government how it is the distinct powers are separated and how they check and balance one another and I love this opening line because he says – what expedient then shall we finally resort for maintaining in practice the necessary partition of power among the several departments has laid down to the Constitution in other words we’ve got this great system how in the world are we gonna keep it so that it’s gonna find what it needs to be and then moving on in the second paragraph which is a little bit more lengthy but this is where the famous line of ambition must be made to counteract ambition but going back to something Gary touched on earlier and I think Rachael touched on to talking about the the human nature element that’s in these I think is really interesting he says the interest of man must contend or must be connected with the constitutional rights of place it may be a reflection of human nature that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government but what is the government itself but the greatest reflection the greatest of all reflections on human nature if men were angels again another famous line no government would be necessary if angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls of government would be necessary a lot of times people stop there I love going on to the next sentence because I think it’s it’s really fun to go through with students in framing government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this you must first enable the government to control the governed and then the next place oblige you to control itself a dependence on the people is no doubt the primary control of the government but experience has taught mankind the necessity of axillary precautions their precautions and that’s I mean that that to me is where we’re the tension right now right so what is the what are the limits what is the control that government can have over our lives and what are the controls that we have over government even in the midst of something as dramatic as as the epidemic work we’re going through right now yeah yeah and why is it that we hamstrung government right why is it that we don’t want this just incredibly efficient government that can do whatever we say that we want it to do we could we could you could create that but there aren’t and we see examples of that and one of the things I love about this again thinking about the Federalist Papers in the current context is you know many many commentators and students maybe are seeing the way that other countries are responding to this crisis and then saying oh America so inefficient in how we’re responding

right and lamenting the hamstringing right it has to go through this huge process in Congress or like the states have to appeal to the sea see or they have to there are all these layers of complexity that are sever hamstringing are opportunities to act in the way that we feel best for our for our community and I think that this is again thinking about just right now having students ask the question you know a dependence of the people is no doubt the primary control in the government but experience what like what are the necessary precautions what are the risks what are the what are the dangers and how do we how do we think about balancing liberty and security yeah and I think it’s really interesting if you could if I could draw an image I don’t have a telestrator but it’s this really interesting thing of like so like we don’t know what a telestrator isn’t that a thing where you can like you know know dreamed up is a great word for it I don’t know what that word is a fabulous word well added to the glossary terms but this is idea that the people are controlling the government and the government is controlling the people and then the government also has to control itself and the people have to control the government still this is weird circular in on ignorance yeah and all of that again is rooted which he does here really well lays out logically it’s rooted in this understanding of human nature that human beings are great they’re capable of incredible things they’re also capable of not incredible things in a really challenging things and so you know it creates there’s interesting nexus right then that does become inefficient challenging and and so difficult to kind of work through but I think it’s a lot of interesting questions you can raise with your students to have some really rich discussions oh absolutely yeah and even happy I mean you can have an entire discussion just on the word control right so there’s I’m thinking in terms of how at least we’re where we are but but even just kind of nationally there’s you know what I what I can do in this context right now but then what my neighbor does is also really important to what I’m doing but I can’t can I make my neighbor do something can anybody make people do things right now we could recommend and yet there’s this sort of collective you know walking walking through the logic of if if people do this maybe this is best and we’re figuring it out collectively in a really powerful way that that hopefully is really helping you know I think that happens a lot of us are making decisions long before official air quotes recommendations were happening and even afterwards but it’s not because of those things it’s we are saying what what what can I do what can neighbors do what can everyone do and it’s it happens almost silently but it isn’t silent right it’s

all a big discussion so so that whole idea of like what is human nature and what is control and what is responsibility and order rights all are wrapped up in this one thing yeah absolutely yeah right capital letter words words so but speaking about efficiency in government that one place where government is most efficient is the executive branch right so if we dive into that I think it’s particularly interesting just because again of the of the the current crisis and we’re going through we’re seeing a lot of executive agencies we’re seeing a lot of executives whether the President or governors they’re very much present now and so I took a very brief selections from several the papers that deal with the executive which is 67 through about 71 where they’re really again laying out these titles I think it’s funny too by the way if you actually go through the papers sequentially you start understanding the titles more which are often very odd it’s like you know the exact the powers of the executive further explored and explained it’s like oh well further explore next what’s he talking about so just go straight through an order got it yeah I I would say that that’s a very overwhelming experience but if you are more than welcome to if you would like to sell and Kirk was happy to hear if you want to comment on our Facebook page we’d love to hear your experience if you want a live stream it kirkwood I’m sure be have someone else to talk to who has read the yeah my wife gets very depressed when I just keep quoting the Federalist Papers to her with but anyway so I included this first one again just as a reference back to the first cuddles paper again because here again you have Publius writing against this unknown other who is now who is working to misrepresent what they were trying to do with the executive I’m keeping him on to obviously the executive was a very touchy subject the artisan Confederation did have a president he didn’t have a lot of power he was very much a figurehead and sort of was a part of the legislative branch wasn’t a distinct group or a distinct branch until he wasn’t really affected and so they now created this other branch but keeping in mind that many of the framers their biggest concern was legislative votes for overreach as much as executive overreach so although they’re concerned about the executive they were really concerned about the legislature but the executive was also something they were concerned about so he talks about the misrepresentations again and and I just like again connecting it to the way that we’re hearing partisan news now or the fact that you know we can’t just inundated with information that the way that it’s presented isn’t anything new I think it’s just fun to connect that back for students and so I love his line nor have I scrupled and so in so flattering a case to allow myself the summary of an IDI that’s a tough one and and then a little congenial with the general spirit

of these papers I hesitate not to and submit into the decision of any candidate an honest adversary of the proposed government whether language confers epithets of too much asperity for so shameless and so prostitute attempt to impose on the citizens of America so look these are people or they’re lying to you about what we’ve done the executive I can’t even scruple to talk about how awful they’re being you’ll understand when you actually see how clear it is the case that we’re making all of that in some vocabulary yeah yeah yeah but then he goes into 68 and I think 68 is gonna be something really to talk about with students in the fall because it’s a presidential election year and so this where the booze is outlining sort of the reasoning behind why we have an electoral college and I think the the second paragraph here I think is is really good but I actually wanna skip to the third paragraph we can come back to the second one if we want but this it was a it was also particularly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumble in disorder disorder this evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the president the United States so what he’s referring to there is having this body that exists outside of anybody that’s elected for the sole purpose of electing the president States so it’s not directly elected it’s not even elected by state legislatures it’s elected by these these members of this college that are gathered together for the sole purpose of electing the president why do we want to do that well he says here to avoid tumult and disorder in other words create a space between the passions of the people and the partisanship of states to elect in the ideal world a person who sits above all of that which would be the president United States so someone that is that it’s going to be our executive and entrusted with these particular advanced powers which if done correctly will then Ally all the concerns that you people who are worried about this executive have of someone who’s going to overreach and become a tyrant yeah it’s really interesting it’s oh so you would say is it’s rather than assigning a power to people who are have some kind of permanent position it is creating the people for this power that exists and solely for that purpose which is a really amazing conduct that’s still thinking out of the box in a way yeah yeah yeah it’s this idea in this happens throughout is sort of refining the the object one of the the mecha nation of the mechanical devices in the Constitution being called mechanical idea that we’re refining we’re hearing the people and then we’re refining out whatever they’re passionate topics are to create what’s gonna be reasonable but still connected back to that passion so it’s that balancing of reason and passion that there continually coming back to this this

refinement is what gets government to a place where it can actually think and reason even though it’s dependent upon this this tumultuous passionate faction ridden people that we all are how is it that we balance those things out well this is one of the the ways that they are arguing that that can be done and so again we have a current event article that touches on this and I think coming back to this article this this fall will be really helpful for students we’re also another shameless plug producing homework help videos one of which deals with the electoral college it touches a little bit on this paper but but really talking about what this structure of the electoral college is what the argument for the framers having the college was why it is that they framed it the way that they did why they saw those things as important um and I think that opens up a really great opportunity to debate with their students what the merits of the electoral college whether or not it’s out of date or whether or not it needs to be revised or whether or not it continues to perform the function that it was originally intended to which is trying to balance out all the very interests in the United States in order to make sure that whoever is representing the people is as broadly elected as possible yeah any other thoughts Rachel and Gary no I think that makes sense did you want to did you want to move on the Federalists because we said one more Federalist paper the Brutus would be fun to touch on tearing because the answer let’s don’t get nearly as much love so I’ll just touch briefly on 69 and 70 just to say it’s more walking through exactly how it is that this is that the the executive is being set up and so in 69 it’s talking about the justification for why the method for that I can’t speak I’ll take a minute we’re all overwhelmed I completely understand I was I was silent as well it’s just so I think for me what what towards the latter the latter part of the the Federalist Papers really again we thinking about the need the executive and and throwing it back – what is that what is human nature like how do you have an end individual representative and how do you constrain that power and again thinking about modern current times there are a lot of people who are disagreeing in lots of ways about lots of things related to our executive right now right so what is the this um it where is it so the president would be an officer unlike the Great Britain who has this hereditary Prince but would be amenable to personal punishments of the grace the the person the other is sacred and inviolable right so even in that first sentence is is the executive amenable to

personal public punishment and disgrace is that a thing that is that any any any executive is amenable to and should they be I mean they’re they’re embedded in these descriptions of the nature of the of the executive as they were describing it there are questions of values and culture that I think are really interesting to explore and then like even down at the bottom the one has no particular no particle of spiritual jurisdiction is that true is that has that been the case in American history I mean in one of our previous webinars we referred to the the fireside chats of Roosevelt where he very clearly it calls people’s attention to the fact that it’s the fact that it’s Easter time and he speaks eloquently about the story of Easter and the relationship with God that the American people have and so I think what’s again situating these particular discussions of the executive in the time and then seeing how it’s evolved over time as our culture has evolved or not evolved to think about how the nature of how the nature of the executive shifts and how our expectations of what the executive does shifts over time yeah absolutely and and what a task has at this point right the appeal to human nature isn’t purely a persuasive way of saying something but to say no what we’re building here if it works needs to go in perpetuity considering human nature and so you know we don’t know what 200 years from now is gonna look like but you know you like tooth wondered how far ahead was he thinking in terms of what is it about human nature what couldn’t rely on happening and then how do we build these systems in a way to deal with whomever is coming next because there’s there’s the values but then there are these permanent things right there are these these eternal principles and and virtues and things that should continue in long into the future so not talking about human nature just to convince you to think you know to think a certain way but to consider his argument but also the thing know we have to consider eternally what is happening for this which is a huge task to do ya know absolutely and in 69 and 70 that’s why they’re having the conversations they’re having so what powers they have why is it a single executive partly because a single executive can be called out um and then in 70 talking about what powers were now giving them how much energy are we giving the executive I think both of those things get at that eternal question of if this is gonna go on in perpetuity what’s it’s gonna look like and I think it’s interesting too right so you touched on this but considering how this has played out now because the the president does now the stinger executive plays an interesting role in that they become or have been in the past particularly starting with FDR sort of

the the the cultural beacon for the nation right and so there’s someone that that comforts us in challenging times and you know I think immediately two of FDR’s fireside chats also on Reagan’s speech after the Challenger disaster or George W Bush after 9/11 I mean fulfilling this role of of being sort of that with the conscience of America I think recently that’s been called into question I think that’s an interesting thing to explore right is that something that ought to be a part of that body or is it something that’s evolved to be there does it necessarily need to be there I think it’s an interesting question to ask savor one the lines of what does it mean to have a single executive now that we have these vast executive agencies right it is it still the single person who’s responsible I think generally speaking American the American Republic still looks to the president to be the one who is ultimately responsible for these kinds of situations so for example you saw just pulling these examples in random but after Hurricane Katrina the failure of the federal government to adequately respond in that situation a lot of that fell on the president right and the president’s inability to manage that executive agency so I do think that that continues to be a focal point but you could see argument on the other side too and that’s an interesting question I think to explore with students seeing how much the executives still fits into the way that they’re described in these Federalist Papers so the let go ahead Rachel oh absolutely just one note about our last last the title is wrong these are the Brutus so if you look in your handout you’ll see that these lines do refer to Brutus but the title is incorrect that’s my fault no problem so Brutus sneekly coming in on as federal spending one so the impact throws I think I just want to touch on them really quickly because they do oftentimes get overlooked but this first Brutus stands out to me for a couple reasons one because of how closely it parallels what Hamilton was doing in his papers or sort of in setting out the Federalist Papers excuse me so writing as Publius and Federalist one but also it’s interesting thinking about the anti-federalists because they work whereas the Federalist thirties 85 set of papers that are written by three people and they have a plan the anti-federalists did not so Brutus it’s also interesting to say that they didn’t call themselves anti federalists in fact they would have thought that they were the real Federalists but the Federalists were anti federalists and that they wanted a national union it’s really confusing but but but the inside Pharaohs are what they were called by by their detractors right and so Brutus won Brutus is one of the Brutus and federal farmer of the two anti-federalists that I think that Publius took most seriously and so here he lays a lot of his arguments for what it’s worth a lot of people think British one was actually the lankton Smith who was a delegate to the ratification convention in New York so this is someone that’s very much a player and not just someone

writing on the sidelines another op it but what I think is interesting is in that in that first paragraph he’s doing he’s doing what Hamilton was doing right and improvers was doing he says when the public is called to investigate and decide upon a question in which not only the present members of the community are deeply interested but upon the happiness and misery of generations yet unborn is in great measure and suspended the benevolent mind cannot help feeling itself peculiar or interested in the result hey this is a big thing we’re undertaking here so it’s on us to be serious about looking at this and in seriously addressing it yeah and again looking forward to this future that you know this is for not just us but for people yet to generations yet from now is it almost a responsibility you know almost 250 years in the future talking about it through a technology that would not even really and the other thing I think the other moment I love if you go to the next slide here it says that I think in the middle of that paragraph let’s make sure it’s here if the Constitution offered to your acceptance be a wise one calculated to preserve the invaluable blessings of liberty to secure the investable rights of mankind and promote have a human happiness then if you accept it you will lay a lasting foundation of happiness for millions yet unborn generations to come will rise up and call you blessed you may rejoice in the prospects of this vast extended continent becoming filled with free men who will assert dignity if cert the dignity of human nature right he’s really laying it on thick and then if we keep going he then says but there’s some problems and then he goes through those problems right and he’s and I think one of the reasons that they took Brutus so seriously so he takes their projects and he says look I understand what you guys I’m not rejecting it outright I’m calling you out on your own terms what’s wrong with this system right and so saying like you’re saying that it’s gonna stay you know now become a consolidated Republic but here’s why it’s going to and you’re saying that the people are still gonna have a voice but this is why it’s not going to which is different than the approach that others took particularly those were calling for a Bill of Rights for example but but calling it out for like gay the system it’s great which trying to do but what you’re trying to do isn’t going to work which i think is interesting that this sentence the but remember sentence in the middle of the paragraph but remember yeah and the people once part with power they can seldom or never resume it again but by force many instances can be produced in which the people have voluntarily increased the power of the rulers but few if any in which the rulers have willingly abridged their authority this is sufficient reason to induce you to be careful in the first instance how you deposit the powers of government and i think again thinking

about the current crisis and thinking about the calls to action for governments to act for us to you know turn over certain rights and privileges that we have you know what are the risks there and can we will we be able to you will anyone be able to abridge the authority in the future if it becomes it become something that is oppressive and I think that that’s again those interesting questions about the nature of evidence that that come up in times of crisis and a really interesting model that you can be on an opposing side to an argument but still evoke the the stakes being saying the stakes are high we’re not disagreeing stakes are high on this and also not disagreeing that there’s the need to contemplate the relationship of people and government and one that governs itself as you said earlier so like you can have the same things that are important and even similar arguments and still see it completely different you want to accomplish things it’s not that you just don’t want your your plan to work it’s that hold on we value these things but also what we see for dangerous right and fundamentally it’s about seeing different dangers right yeah yeah yeah and I think that’s why and I appreciate everyone walking through the Federalist Papers with me or at least this selection of them because I think that’s the opportunity we have the students right now it’s just it’s not to disagree with or even comment on on the positive or negative policies that are happening and or anything negative or anything that’s going on but it’s it’s a way of taking a step back looking at the stakes that are taking place and saying hey let’s let’s evaluate this in the Federalist Papers provide a great lens to get to some of those very foundational arguments that are operating at the root of our government and how it is that it functions it helped us to return sort of those fundamental questions that we can explore with our students and especially now that we have so many examples right before us right so well I want to offer a huge thank you to Kirk because he put all of this together for us and it was it was a great run jaunt journey walk meander through the through the Federalist Papers and his team did a wonderful job putting them together with those current events resources and we have more of this coming so if you like what you’re seeing and you want to be a part of our community we encourage you to reach out subscribe to us on YouTube we do the 10th period webinars every other week we also have our new web series for students that’s twice a week and we are launching some new homework help videos so we have about 40 of those already in the can but we have we have five more coming up this semester four or five more coming up this semester so subscribe and you’ll get you’ll get a chance to read to to engage with all that content from Bri yeah and we

greatly appreciate everything that everyone is that you are doing facing sort of this new reality as we all are of trying to continue education through these really challenging and unprecedent at times and anything we can do to support you in that endeavor let us know any topics you want us to cover any things you want us to explore materials that we can work on helping to put out to support on your work in the classroom where we’re here for that purpose so please reach out let us know no absolutely you know I want to thank you for this and for everybody else watching too and and and you know it is no lie to say I’m actually inspired to read these a little bit more and I’m thinking do I start at the top and I realize I might go there first good stuff it is and all of the resources are going to be linked not only in the chat but also in the the description and then they’ll also be on our 10th period webinar website so have you got a WWE RI org slash 10 period you’ll be able to find all the resources there as well and share them around great absolutely well thank you both so much for joining me thank you everyone for tuning in and we’ll talk to everyone again soon you hello and welcome to another episode of