Reading excerpts from deTocqueville’s Democracy in America | A Primary Source Close Read w/ BRI

0:07 Hello. Welcome to Bill of Rights Institute’s Close Reading. My name is Rachel Davison Humphries, and I am Director of Outreach, but I was also a middle and high school teacher for almost ten years. And in today’s close reading, I am joined by my very dear colleague, Mary. Hi Mary. Hi Rachel. Hi, I’m Mary Patterson. I am a senior education program specialist

0:30 here at the Bill of Rights Institute, and I get to work on all the great curricula that Bill of Rights Institute puts out. And I was also a high school teacher for eight years, so I am well versed in the American teenager as well. And so the purpose of these activities is to take a look at one piece of text or an image and really dive into it and see

0:52 kind of where it goes and what the questions are that come out of it. Often in American history, we have the opportunity to read people who are deceased and who came from contexts that are not our own. And so what we’re doing with this series is helping you get a little bit more access to those words and those documents and kind of walk through them.

1:15 The reason I’ve been invited to do this particular one is it is on one of my favorite authors, Alexis de Tocqueville, and his book Democracy in America, to prove to you that I’m not faking when I say I love Alexis de Tocqueville. This is my house, this is my bookshelf. And we have no fewer than eight volumes of the de Tocqueville in our house.

1:37 So I am not a scholar. I’m a former classroom teacher. And so these interpretations that we’re going to go through are really just practicing reading. How do we think about the de Toqueville? How do we think about what he says? How do we think about how it applies now, 200 years later? So let’s jump in.

2:00 And there we go. So this is our Primary Source, Close Read for Democracy in America. Thanks for joining. So, to start out, there is an introduction where de Tocqueville talks about why he’s writing and how he’s writing. One thing to know is that, as you could probably tell by his name,

2:21 Alexis de Tocqueville, this is not an American person. He is a Frenchman. He came on a tour of the Americas in the 1800s in order to understand more about our prison system, actually, which was an interesting reason to come America at the time.

2:43 The Sing Sing Prison in upstate New York, which is still a working prison, was doing some interesting things, and it had made its way to Europe. And so he came to tour the facilities of American prisons and speak to Americans about their policies and their processes. And in the meantime, he ended up being welcomed into various

3:03 stages of American society as he went from the north to the south, trying to understand more about what it meant to be an American and how we had successfully not really rehabilitated, but we had created prisons that were much less used to rioting than the prisons in Europe.

3:25 And so that’s what he came to do. So there’s an introduction that talks about that. And he was an aristocrat himself, and so he came from this very particular perspective of society. And then he says, the more I advanced in the study of American society, the more I perceived that this equality

3:49 of condition is the fundamental fact from which all others seem to be derived, and the central point at which my observations constantly terminated. So this idea of equality in America so, again, he’s coming from France, where there was very clear and Mary, you taught more world history than I did,

4:12 so jump in at any time to talk about France in the 1800s. But there was a lot more gradation, I guess, and it was very structured, like society was really structured at that time. Is that right? Yeah. So I think it’s definitely worth you have to point out that he’s an outsider looking in on America, and not only is he an outsider, he’s an aristocrat.

4:34 He’s from France. France is like the United States has gone through a revolution of a very different character, where they completely got rid of any sort of hierarchy for a time, and then they sort of ended up back with monarchy where they started. So he is, I think, more attuned to that idea that is

4:55 American, I think uniquely American to him, that the quality of condition and equality is something he will come back to later in the passage. So it’s definitely I don’t know, I would say to my students, like, have you ever been somewhere where you were the outsider and you were observing something for the first time? And what struck you? And that’s sort of the lens through which de Tocqueville is writing about not just

5:19 prisons, but everything in American society. Right. This idea of equality, of commission, which we’ll come back to throughout the reading, really, is where he anchored a lot of his observations that in America there has always been this sense of the idea of equality, even if it wasn’t perfectly executed as we

5:42 can talk about, but there is no entrenched reason, again, we can come back to it. He actually predicted the Civil War, saying that slavery was a problem for the equality of condition.

6:05 So if you’re ever curious what Tocqueville said about slavery, it’s actually a really interesting passage where he talks about the fact that this can’t last because of American’s interest in equality. He predicts a lot of things which are really interesting. I highly recommend reading the book kind of in its entirety. It is many hundreds of pages.

6:26 It’s a good one to have, like, on the bedside table and you pick up and you read a few chapters and then you put it away. Or maybe that’s just my bedside table and I have many volumes. It’s okay. But he does talk a lot about this idea of equality while recognizing that the issue of slavery is a tension within the idea of equality that will

6:49 eventually have to be resolved in American culture. So he recognizes all of this. He observes this equality condition and says that the democracy which governs the American communities appears to be rapidly rising everywhere, and especially Europe. So he totally is recognizing that the momentum is towards democracy.

7:17 And why is that? The case is kind of what he ends up writing Democracy in America about as an exploration of how do we get, like, what is the future hold? Why did it happen in the United States? And what does that mean for the rest of the world? So in the excerpts that we have, this is a set of excerpts.

7:43 Like I said, this is many hundreds of page documents. And so you’re going to want to have just a taste of what he has to say. But I’m going to read this aloud, and then what we’re going to do is we’re going to kind of walk through some questions about it. So first I’ll read it aloud to you, and then we’ll walk through some questions, and that’s how this will go. It’ll help you because you’ll hear kind

8:04 of how I’m in toning the words, but then it also gives you a chance to come up with your own questions, and then, Mary, jump in anytime you want. So I’ve stated in the preceding chapter that great equality existed among the immigrants who settled on the shores of New England. Even the germs of aristocracy were never planted in that part of the Union. The only influence which obtained there was that of intellect.

8:28 The people became accustomed to revering certain names as representatives of knowledge and virtue. Some of their fellow citizens acquired a power over others that might truly be called aristocratic if it had been capable of transmission from father to son. At this period, at the time of the American Revolution, society was shaken to its center. The people in whose name the struggle had taken place conceived the idea,

8:50 conceived the desire of exercising the authority that it had acquired. Its democratic tendencies were awakened. And having thrown off the yoke of the mother country, it aspired to independence of every kind. Mary, what strikes you in those paragraphs? I really like this idea.

9:11 The germs of aristocracy were never planted in that part of the Union. So I think just acknowledging, I think from the beginning, the United States was a place where many people came, people who came willingly, came to start again, to start over, and not have all of the baggage from wherever they were coming.

9:34 And Tocqueville is recognizing this too. And then he goes further. And of course, it’s in our Constitution. We don’t have any titles of nobility. And the only influence which obtained there was that of intellect. I really like this idea that we’re looking up to an aristocracy of merit or intellect is something that he is noticing.

9:54 And to revere certain names again, this is interesting that it’s not far removed from the American Revolution and the founding period but you still wonder what names these might be. Who are our founding fathers or who are these people that people are looking up

10:15 to as representatives of knowledge and virtue? So from the get go, just acknowledging knowledge and virtue as something that’s important in the United States makes you feel good inside. Because again, this is a period where slavery does exist. So some of these ideals of the revolution are perverted by that.

10:36 But the ideal is not perverted. The ideal is knowledge and virtue and merit. And it’s also recognizing that there are power structures and there are power dynamics but it’s not transmittable, it is fickle. And we see that today in representatives or public figures who have a lot

10:59 of authority and influence for whatever virtue they exhibit. But that doesn’t always last. That can change very rapidly. Right. And that’s not the case in an aristocracy where it’s an entrenched authority and power in American culture. Even today there’s a lot of fickleness in who has the dominant voice in different

11:22 conversations about things that affect our society. Right? And I think it’s also again, as Americans, even today we don’t have titles of nobility. We never had them. So it’s kind of hard for us to think that way. But even a country like the United Kingdom they still have those and that’s inherited.

11:43 Right? Again, sort of Tocqueville’s world view versus American worldview you kind of see coming at it from. It’s remarkable to him because it’s just missing. I mean, there’s still these structures, as you said, but it’s not quite the same as what he sees at home. And the other piece that I think is key is

12:04 this last sentence which is this independence of every kind. For Americans, independence is a very different kind of thing than it is for other cultures. And for him to recognize that fully is also interesting. You’ll see often when immigrants or visitors will come they’ll

12:28 think about how we treat our elderly relations, right? That they don’t live with us whereas in many cultures they’ll be invited to live with you. But in American culture there’s a sense of independence not only for the grandparents who want to maintain their own independence but also this idea that’s what we do,

12:48 we have independent lives and we have our independent family lives and there’s independence of every kind throughout American culture. And that’s not to say we love them any less but it’s a different sense of independence. Yeah, just things to keep thinking. And as we read through this is what, again, I love about Tocqueville is that you can still see all of these things that he’s

13:13 describing in the 1800s right now in modern culture. And then you ask questions, is that true? Which is what we’ll get to in just a moment. Okay. So it is not only the fortunes of men that are equal in America. Even their acquirements partake in some degree of the same uniformity.

13:34 I do not believe that there’s a country in the world where, in proportion to the population, there are so few ignorant and at the same time so few learned individuals. Primary instruction, so he’s, meaning primary school, like elementary school, is within the reach of everybody, and superior instruction is scarcely to be obtained by any.

13:55 This was before the great explosion of public universities and the land grant universities. So we didn’t have as robust a university system when he was talking or when he was writing. This is not surprising. It is, in fact, a necessary consequence of what I have found above. Almost all the Americans are in easy

14:16 circumstances and therefore can obtain the first elements of human knowledge. In America, there are but few wealthy persons. Nearly all Americans have to take a profession. They have to work. By his definition of wealthy, the way he’s describing it here is that wealthy people don’t have to work.

14:37 They just live off of their entitlements as opposed to taking a profession, which means you have to work. The Americans can devote to general education only the early years of their life. At 15, they enter upon their calling unless their education generally ends at the age when ours begins. He’s talking about the aristocracy going to the universities in Europe.

14:59 If it is continued beyond that point, it aims only towards a particular specialized and profitable purpose. One studies science, as one takes up a business, and one takes up only those applications, those immediate practicality whose immediate practicality is recognized. If you’re a young person who’s thinking about university and going to college,

15:21 this is a conversation that sounds very familiar. What are you going to do with it? Is what Tocqueville is talking about. He’s talking about the American tendency to say, what’s your major? What are you going to do with it. And he’s talking about it in the 1800s. Oh, man, I known that question very well. It’s a terrifying question, especially if you went to a school

15:42 that was like a weird little liberal arts school that didn’t have any clear use but ended up with a lot of books and this wonderful work. So back to this, though. So what do you think about this, Mary? I mean, I think there’s a lot in here about the nature of American thinking about education, about our belief in the power of work.

16:06 I think it’s important for us to understand what he means by wealthy, because I think that you can say but he also says that Americans are wealthy enough that everyone has access to education, which I think is interesting. Yeah, I think the primary instruction is within the reach of everybody. So it’s almost like this education, the basics is sort of this leveling field.

16:28 But I think that was interesting. The superior instruction is scarcely to be obtained by any. That comment I don’t know how to read that one. I don’t know if it’s just sort of that sort of European snobbery a little bit or is it factual? Is it both? I don’t know. I think it’s probably both.

16:49 When you read Toqueville, he’s a snob. He’s a bit of a snob and that’s okay and that’s who he was. But I really do think this was before the major expansions in university education in the US. And very few people I mean, you had a couple of the Ivy Leagues, but you didn’t have the major US

17:11 land grant, university, state universities, community colleges. You just didn’t have that. I wonder if he would say the same thing today. Yeah, this also makes me think of basically it sounds like he’s describing a vocational education, which is something you hear a lot about today with what sort of path or what type

17:33 of education is appropriate and is it one size fits all for everyone? So that’s something that I think that is really interesting. But you’re right. I think he is need to have a specialized and profitable purpose. So it’s not just education for education sake, but what are you going to do with that? What are you going to do with it? I love seeing those kinds of questions from way back.

17:59 Yes. In America, most of the rich men were formerly poor. Most of those who now enjoy leisure were absorbed in business during their youth. The consequence of this is that when they might have had a taste for study, they had no time for it. And when they have time at their disposal, they no longer have the inclination. There is no class then in America

18:19 in which the taste for intellectual pleasures is transmitted with hereditary fortune and leisure and by which the labors of the intellect are held in honor. America then exhibits in her social state an extraordinary phenomenon. Men are there seen on a greater equality in point of fortune and intellect or in other words,

18:41 more equal in their strength than in any other country of the world or in any age in which history has preserved the remembrance. There is in fact a manly and lawful passion for equality that incites men to wish all to be powerful and honored. This passion tends to elevate the humble to the ranks of the great. But there exists also in the human heart a depraved sense taste for equality

19:04 which compels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality and slavery to inequality with freedom. Not that those nations whose social condition is democratic naturally despise liberty. On the contrary, they have an instinctive love of it. But the liberty is not the chief and constant object of their desires.

19:25 Equality is their idol. They make rapid and sudden efforts to obtain liberty and if they miss their aim, resign themselves to their disappointment. But nothing can satisfy them without equality and they would rather perish than lose it. There’s so much in these paragraphs. A lot. There’s a lot here.

19:47 I do think, so, that final paragraph especially. But I think this idea that in the second paragraph here, men there are seen on a greater quality and point of fortunate intellect, again, just pointing out that he says it’s extraordinary. So I think we that word gets sort of batted around a lot.

20:11 But if you look at what it means, this is not typical, this is exceptional that this happens here. So I think that it’s interesting that he points that out, that we want you can make something of yourself. I don’t know if I’m right. I think that’s right. Well, because it doesn’t come to you hereditarily. His whole thing is that you have to work for it in some sense.

20:35 And even if I like this part about where in their use, people who are super eager to think about things that aren’t business don’t have time to when they’re young because they’re building their businesses, and then you’re not as eager to think about those sorts of things when you’re retired or later on in life.

20:55 So that’s what I’m getting out of the first paragraph. But then the second paragraph, with this extraordinary phenomenon that there’s greater inequality in the point of fortune and intellect, or that they are equal in their strength. So some people do inherit wealth.

21:16 And I think that, again, he’s still relatively early when we had different kinds of laws around inheritance, and America just wasn’t as wealthy as she is now, or Americans just aren’t as wealthy as they are now. So maybe he would think differently now. But at least at this time, there was this sense that, again, your fortune is fickle.

21:41 I think it’s the Vanderbilts, but just like the Vanderbilts, within two generations, their wealth was back to middle class levels. And it doesn’t persist if you don’t have a certain kind of education or if you don’t have those certain virtues that we were talking about earlier. But this last piece, I think this last paragraph is the one that’s most interesting.

22:04 Is there anything more to unpack in here? I think there’s a lot to unpack, yeah. So calling a depraved taste for equality, I think that the use of depraved is very interesting, and I would imagine so depraved

22:25 makes me think of West Side Story, but just corrupt, right? That’s the meaning of that. So I think that word choice is really interesting there. I was going to say, and I thought this note here compelling the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level. So I think in some there’s like this tendency to tear

22:50 people down because you want them on your level. If that’s sort of what he’s describing there, I think that’s really interesting. But just this love of equality and slavery over inequality with freedom. So rather than have it’s better to tear that person down, so we’re all on a lower plane than to try to raise others up, I think is.

23:13 Well, and we sometimes see this with the wealth in quality conversations that happen around the country. Right. Having people be that much more wealthy is unequal, and we would rather put institutions in place. That’s an example of the kind of thing I’m seeing him say is that in American culture

23:35 or people who, again, had something perceived and I think it’s perception that there’s something that was perceived as unfair in their acquisition of their position. And then there’s a response that, no, everyone should be more equal.

23:57 This is America. That is something I can imagine being a conversation for groups of people. It’s a conversation I’ve heard. Yeah. I mean, I think that is the conversation. What does equality mean?

24:17 Who equality? How equality in what respects? I think that’s sort of the eternal question and the question that we’re still answering. Agreed, 200 years later. Yeah, the Tocqueville saw it. It’s not a new question. It’s not a new question. I mean, it’s an older question even than

24:38 de Tocqueville, like, what is right equality in society? And I think that’s a really conversation that we are constantly having. What I find interesting here is Americans often talk about their love of liberty, but we don’t often talk about our love of equality as a love of equality.

25:00 We call all sorts of other things. And I wonder if that changes whether or not we’re perceiving that we love equality. I have lots of questions, but I find it interesting that he’s putting those two intentions with one another, liberty and equality. Right. And so, of course, we have liberty and equality,

25:22 our founding principles here at the Bill of Rights Institute. But again, we have these terms liberty, equality. And the more you stop and look at those words, the more you realize that’s not really clear. How do you define that? Or different people would define it in different ways. And the definition, does the definition change over time, or is there something interesting?

25:44 But it’s not really, exactly. Again, all of these readings, the reason this is a close read is to surface question. And so there I mean, we could have a longer conversation about just that paragraph because there’s so many. Every sentence, every clause is a conversation. And sometimes when you read these older documents, that’s what you get.

26:07 Sometimes when you read newer Supreme Court cases, that’s what you get. And that’s why it’s fun to do this with others in groups. Okay, so last one on this section. On the other hand, so we were talking remember, this last paragraph is all about the tension between liberty and equality.

26:28 On the other hand, in the state where the citizens are all practically equal, it becomes difficult for them to preserve their independence against the aggressions of power, no one among them being strong enough to engage in the struggle alone with advantage. Nothing but a general combination can protect their liberty. Now, such a union is not always possible.

26:50 The Anglo Americans are the first nation who, having been exposed to this formidable alternative, have been happy enough to escape the dominion of power. They have been allowed, by their circumstances, their origin, their intelligence, and especially by their morals, to establish and maintain the sovereignty of the people.

27:12 I feel like this is de Tocqueville giving United States a gold star. He’s like, Good job, guys. Scratch and sniff sticker. I found that students always liked stickers, even when they were older, but I still like stickers.

27:34 I do, too. But again, just this idea that this experiment since the American Revolution, to have a government of the people is still working in his time, and it’s not perfect, it’s flawed, but it’s still ongoing.

27:58 And I think that’s true even today. It’s certainly not perfect, but it’s still in its fundamental working. Yeah absolutely. And I think that he’s recognizing that, again, with all its flaws, there is something really unique about what was able to happen here,

28:19 about throwing off the yoke of that dominion of absolute power that someone other than ourselves would govern us. If there’s no stronger characters, if everyone is practically equal, then you don’t have good leadership. And you see this sometimes, I don’t know, in group projects.

28:44 We started on the group project, right? Or actually, I’ve been in group projects where everyone is a leader, and that’s equally difficult. Right. And so he was talking about the fact that you need to have diversity in a population in order to access the different skills

29:06 and strengths, but that’s not always possible. But in America, there was enough, and this is why I love this sentence. It was their circumstances, the origin, the intelligence, just chance. A lot of it was chance that all these things came together.

29:29 But they all have the same moral fabric binding them, that allowed them to respect and maintain the sovereignty idea that let America happen. I like that there’s the intelligence, but also the morality you can’t have to go together. And it makes me just think of, like, America is a group project.

29:49 It’s messy, it’s painful. Sometimes you want to scream. Sometimes you do scream. That happens sometimes, too. But in the end, even I, who swore off group projects in kindergarten, that’s a true story. Admit that it comes out better in the end with the input of many.

30:09 That is a huge revolution coming for me. All of my former students will remember the story of five year old Mary Blaring off group work. But it is the union is still possible, I would say. I’m going to be optimistic here. I think Tocqueville was, too, at least on these passages.

30:31 I have the next passage. I’m going to share something outside the text that is in our resource, because it’s my favorite paragraphs, maybe in all of American history. Not to put too big a cap on it.

30:52 Tocqueville is an interesting character because he’s not always kind to Americans. There are a lot of passages where he is very critical and very snobby because he’s a Frenchman, probably no offense to the French, but he’s a French aristocrat and he’s very snobby sometimes. But he has this beautiful passage in part

31:15 two, chapter eight, which is the last couple of paragraphs of the book. So he’s a student of history. He goes back from age to age to the remotest antiquity. But I find no parallel to what is occurring before my eyes. As the past has ceased to throw its light upon the future.

31:38 The mind of man wanders in obscurity. Nevertheless, in the midst of a prospects of a prospect of like the future which is so wide, so novel, so confused, some of the more prominent characteristics may already be discerned in pointing out the good things and the evils of life are more equally distributed in the world.

32:02 Great wealth tends to disappear and small number of fortunes to increase. Desires and gratifications are multiplied, but extraordinary prosperity and irredeemable penury are alike unknown. So here he’s saying, it used to be the case that most people

32:25 lived in abject property and then you had kings and queens. It is now the case that we still have very wealthy people. But more and more people have small fortunes, and the bottom billion is diminishing, right? Like the people living on $1 a day, they’re less and less every year.

32:46 The sentiment of ambition is universal, but the scope of ambition is seldom vast. Each individual stands apart in solitary weakness. But society at large is active, provident and powerful. The performance of private citizens are significant, are insignificant, those of the state immense.

33:11 There is little energy of character. I’m not sure that’s the case right now, but he’s saying there’s little energy of character. You don’t have, like, a lot of big personalities, but manners are mild and laws humane. One more. Okay, so there’s less perfection and more abundance.

33:33 He goes on, violence is more rare, cruelty is almost unknown. The extremes are softened. But this is it. This is the last paragraph. When I surveyed this countless multitude of beings shaped in each other’s likeness,

33:56 amidst who nothing rises and nothing falls. The sight of such universal uniformity saddens me and chills me, and I’m tempted to regret the state of society which has ceased to be. When the world was full of men of great importance and extreme insignificance,

34:16 of great wealth and extreme poverty, of great learning and extreme ignorance. I could easily turn aside the latter and turn my observation to the former, which gratified my sympathies. But I admit that this gratification arose from my own weakness. It is because I am unable to see at once all around me that I am allowed to thus

34:40 to select and separate the objects of my predilection from among so many. So I can see the greatness because I can look at the rich people and I don’t have to look at everything else. Such is not the case with the almighty and eternal being,

35:01 whose gaze necessarily includes the whole of creative things, and whose surveys distinctly, though at once mankind and man. We may naturally believe that it is not the singular prosperity of the few, but the greater well being of all which is most pleasing in the sight of the Creator and preserver of men. What appears to me to be man’s decline in his eye advancement.

35:25 What affects me, afflicts me is unacceptable. What afflicts me is acceptable to him. A state of equality is perhaps less elevated, but it is more just. And its justice constitutes its greatness and its beauty. I would strive then to raise myself to this point of divine contemplation

35:48 and then to view and judge the concerns of men. So I’m going to do a little interpretation here, because that was a lot of words. But just that when you have gross inequalities in society, it’s easy to see greatness.

36:09 When you have a democratic society that’s very diverse and very diffuse, it’s hard to see the greatness because there are too many little parts. And so it’s easy to turn your eyes to things that are big acts. But what’s really just is everyone working independently in their own spheres.

36:36 It’s just hard to see that. And so he strives at the very end of his book, he’s striving to see the justness in democracy because it’s hard, because it’s messy, because it’s a group project. Yes. And I think that that’s really a beautiful way to kind of end his study,

37:02 is this exhortation to see better what all the things are that are these moving parts, that are a democratic republic. We should all strive to see better, I think is a great way because we’re all a part of this in democratic republic.

37:25 It’s our voice of the people. So we should try to take off the blinders and see, which is not always easy to do. Which is not always easy to do. And he says the only one that can do it is God. I think we should try. Yeah. So we’ll try, but we might not get there.

37:46 Well, that is the end of Democracy in America for this close read. There is a lot more to this book. So if you are interested in democracy in America, I highly recommend it. You can read it in the original French. There is a four volume version if you are a French speaker. There is also a number of excerpted versions where you can get a really good taste.

38:08 He has really great things to say about American women and the power of American women in society. He has really interesting things to say about American education and societies and cities and communities. There’s a lot that he talks about in these two volumes of this book. Mary, any kind of final thoughts on our study of de Tocqueville for the day?

38:30 I would just say it was a pleasure diving into the de Tocqueville with you and also to check out our Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, our free online US. History textbook that’s launching July 6. Very exciting and de Tocqueville is there. He’s annotated with scaffolded questions for you and your students. So you can bring him to your students and have them have some

38:53 of these conversations and big questions as well. Yeah. And again, this is a translation, so there are multiple translations. You might find that some translations are easier than others. This one comes from the free Gumberg Press version, but there are a lot of other versions, and so some of the language may be slightly easier in other versions.

39:14 But our version is annotated, so it has all of the vocabulary you might need. These last couple of paragraphs aren’t in there. They’re my own little addition, but I love them. Well, thank you all so much for joining us today. There is more in this series, so ring the bell. Subscribe. Let us know if there’s more you want to talk about. And thanks for joining us on today’s close read.

39:37 Thanks. Bye everyone.