Debating Gun Control | Public Forum

welcome everybody to tonight’s debate webinar preparation tonight we’re going to be discussing the NFT 8 November topic resolve the United States should require universal background checks for all gun sales and transfers of ownership but before we begin I want to cover a couple housekeeping items as everybody can see at the top of our screen we have a chat function that’s for you guys you guys can talk to hi to everybody we do ask though that you keep it clean and nothing inappropriate or else we have to kick you out of the debate webinar okay that’s first number two right here up to the left-hand side of the screen as Amanda showed us that is four questions that are directed at the speakers okay so we want to keep that one clean and that one only use if you have a pertinent question you want the speakers to tackle and to answer okay again my name is Jeffrey horn I’m the director of programs at the Bill of Rights Institute and we are excited to bring you two wonderful speakers tonight how it’s going to go is we’re gonna hear from two speakers one from each side of the resolution that they will each speak for about 15 minutes apiece they will cover key topics and key talking points for their side of the resolution and then after they both go we will then open up the remainder of the time to you guys to ask questions to each of them I will moderate that session at the end and then we will we will tackle all of that okay so if no further ado I would like to introduce Glenn Caroline from the NRA and Christine Smith from the Gipper’s Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence we’ll have them jump on real quick with their with their their other video and then we’ll do a brief introduction before we we proceed all right so Glenn Caroline is the director of grass work programs and campaign field operations division at the mat the National Rifle Association he serves his division has compromised as a comprised of 17 staff members stationed out of the NRA headquarters in Fairfax Virginia as well as in key regions throughout the country he develops and implements and write political legislative grassroots programs as well as well as the associations campaign field operations voter registration drives and

get-out-the-vote campaigns at the national state and local levels mister caroline holds a bachelor’s degree in political science with the certificate in international relations from the University of Massachusetts attackers Christine Smith is the director of pro bono partnerships from the Gifford Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence she joined the Law Center into 2016 as the organization’s pro bono coordinator in 2017 she became a staff attorney and the director of pro bono partnerships she correspond with law firms and attorneys who generously volunteered their assistance with legal research and amicus briefs drafts of signs and best research projects and acts as liaison between the center’s legal team and pro bono partners Christine hurt earned her BA at Smith College and her JD at Fordham University School of Law with no further ado we’re gonna give the time over to Christine first and so she will she will lead us in to the affirmative to the resolution Christine the time is yours all right Jeffrey thank you very much for that very nice introduction and welcome everyone I’m really glad to be here and sharing some perspectives on your resolution and congratulations to you all for getting involved in debate I think it’s a great thing for students to do okay the US should require universal background checks for all gun sales and transferred the ownership let’s start with the basics federal law prohibits purchase and possession of firearms by people who fall within certain categories for example federal law prohibited convicted felons domestic abusers and people with specific kinds of mental health histories from having guns in addition and actually with just the exception of Vermont every state and the District of Columbia have laws that restrict access to firearms by basically the same categories of people some states have gone a bit further than federal law to help ensure that living that infesting dangerous people don’t have access to guns now a gun seller a gun dealer can insure and he or she is not selling or transferring to a prohibited person somebody who shouldn’t have a gun by conducting a background check our federal law requires that gun dealers who hold a federal license perform a background check on any potential buyer before showing that firearm and here’s basically how it works the buyer the prospective buyer so that it form the dealer provides those specifics to the FBI’s National instant background criminal background system which we all know is nixed the buyers information is that run through three databases to determine if the buyer is prohibited from possessing a gun based on existing for our own state law and the results that come back are either the gun the sales and proceeds the sale

is denied because the seller was a hit the buyer was a hit or there’s a delay because the FBI has to do further research since 1994 three million people we should not have guns have been blocked by the next system from having a gun unfortunately gun dealers who are not required to have a federal license because they don’t fall under the category of who has to have a license under federal law and this would be for example private party sellers of guns they are not required to run a background check on a prospective gun buyer fortunately 19 states and the Columbia had extended the background check requirements beyond federal law to it some private sellers but there was still no federally mandated universal background check requirement in the United States so why should the law require the universal background checks and it’s really a simple exist without universal background checks guns end up in the wrong hands universal background check laws are effective and they stabilize so let’s take a look at some of the statistics based on some research done by the CDC the Centers for Disease Control from 2009 to 2012 states that require background checks on all handguns l but when applying for a permit when or when you’re applying for a permit to purchase a gun has 35% fewer gun – per capita than states without a universal background check requirements and interestingly states that required universal background checks on all handgun sales experience less than half as many mass shooting incidents of states without a universal background check requirements states with universal background check requirements have 63% – on mass shootings by individuals who are prohibited from possessing guns and 64% – a mass shooting involving domestic violence in addition the same states that have a universal background check requirement experience 48% less gun trafficking 38% fewer deaths of women shot by intimate partners 17% she were firearms in aggravated assault and 53 percent fewer firearm suicides so let me give you a couple of case studies that really demonstrate the expected universal background checks and there are two states that really really show the two ends of the spectrum let’s start with Missouri in 2007 Missouri repealed the law it had had on its books for nearly a century requiring all handguns to undergo a background check and to

obtain a license nor to lawfully purchase a handgun from any seller the researchers at after this law was repealed in 2007 researchers at Johns Hopkins determined that the repeal of the law was linked to a 14% increase in Missouri’s murder rates for 2012 and the 25% increase in firearm homicide rates in addition to this significant increase there was a two-fold increase in the percentage of guns recovered at injuries crime scenes with intruders of their retail sales and other researchers have confirmed that the retail of Missouri’s universal background check requirements associated with the 15% increase in the state’s rate of fire on suicide in contrast and this is really really great news in 1995 Connecticut implemented a law that requires a background check for any individual applying for a permit to purchase a handgun from any seller in the state the same researches of Johnson found that Connecticut’s background check law was associated with a 40% reduction in the state’s firearm related homicide rate and interestingly and actually very telling the large drop in homicides was for firearm related killings only not in homicides by other means showing a real connection here that says law really worked to reduce in terms of gun violence other researchers also found that Connecticut’s background check law is associated with 15% reduction in firearm suicides my final point besides all of the statistics showing how effective the universal background check law can be is that hold numerous polls have shown that the American public in general strongly supports laws requiring background checks on all gun purchasers more than 90% of American public in fact and this includes 84 percent of gun owners and 74% of members of the NRA supports background checks for all gun sales so with that I will turn it over back to Jeffrey thank you much wonderful wonderful they much Christine for that struction Danelle would just switch over and we’ll turn the time over to Glenn and he’ll cover the key points to the negative on the resolution and an app or Glenn’s remarks will then open it up to Q&A so everybody else I will hop up and Glen the time of yours time to lay out I’m sorry Christine I appreciate you being here I think this is an important relevant topic I’m excited to have the opportunity to discuss this with you and

also to take questions thank you for laying out part of the current federal law I just want to expand on that a little bit more because I think it’s important to understand what the current law is first and foremost you have to understand that the current background check system in the United States which was implemented on November 30th 1998 called the National instant criminal background check system or NICs by its acronym would not exist if it wasn’t for the National Rifle Association we were successful in amending a requirement that all commercial transfers of farms in the country be subject to this background check the legislation was amended to a piece of legislation that we were actually working to defeat we were unsuccessful in defeating the underlying legislation but we did include a provision that required as of November 30th 1998 all commercial transfers would have to be subject to a background check so what does that mean that means in the United States today there is nowhere where a licensed dealer can transfer or sell a rifle a shotgun or a handgun without conducting a background check the check has to be done irrespective of location the background checks are done gun shows they’re done flea markets they’re done at a dealers house they’re done at gun stores so the law says no matter where the transaction takes place between a commercially licensed dealer or a federal farms licensed dealers Christine reference and a citizen a background check must be conducted and we’re going on almost 20 years of that law being in effect now while most American gun owners and we there are a hundred million of us across the country most transactions law-abiding citizens under take our commercial transfers criminals by contrast are unaffected by background checks consider further that federal law as we sit here today prohibits a person an individual from selling that giving a firearm to any other person who would otherwise not pass a background check current federal law today says if you are a person who is not a licensed dealer you are not allowed to sell or give a firearm to a person who lives in another state those are already existing federal laws the problem with the so-called universal background check system is no check will be truly Universal because the population that we all want to see not get guns criminals will not abide by the law our own Department of Justice has done a study that shows most violent criminals defeat or circumvent background checks by getting guns through theft through straw purchases on the black market and through acquaintances in fact if you look at data from our own Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives nearly half of all the illegally trafficked guns are because of straw purchases and what a straw purchase is it’s an illegal act where somebody who has a clean background check goes and purchased a gun and knowingly and illegally transfer it to somebody who’s prohibited from owning again again that’s already against federal law a good example of this was the tragic shooting in San Bernardino where somebody with a clean record went through a background check got the gun

and illegally transported to a prohibited person keep in mind further I know that there’s been a lot of information the news as of late about the horrific shooting that took place in Las Vegas in the United States since 2000 virtually every mass shooter in this country obtained his firearm without going through a private transfer and an overwhelming majority of these shooters actually successfully passed a background check the few others who got their guns to commit their horrific crimes usually got them through a straw purchase or through theft again two acts that are already illegal and of course every mass shooting in France in Belgium in Norway in Germany and elsewhere in Europe all of those transfers are subject to existing background checks as well some that are much much more rigorous than those we have the United States just recently a study was conducted that looked at two of the most recent states to enact mandatory background check for private transfers those that were passed in Washington Colorado and they found that in the aftermath of this mandate that individual transfers be subject to background checks there was no corresponding increase in the number of checks that were done in those two respective states now the NRA opposes background check between private citizens for a number of reasons first and foremost we don’t think it would really reduce crime and I think it’s a better telling statistic of looking at crime rates of states that are required don’t require background checks isn’t to compare those two states but to look at crime rates within those states before the background checks were implemented and after they were implemented so we have seen that there’s an increased cost that’s passed along to individual citizens we have concerns about restrictions of due process and we certainly believe that the only way to successfully implement a universal background check system would be to establish some type of registration process where you could track which private individuals were transferring and buying guns we vehemently oppose federal farm registration has so for decades is a current federal law on the book that prohibits the federal government from compiling a registry of lawful gun owners one of the statistic that I find very interesting that I’ve heard repeated over and over that Christine raised was the overwhelming support she alleges the American people have for these so-called universal background checks well in 2016 last year’s elections we had two states that actually put these questions before the voters one was in Nevada and one was in Maine not only did neither one of those initiatives pass with anything close to 90% but in Nevada the ballot initiative passed by only eight tenths of 1% and the initiative was defeated in Maine by voters that to me doesn’t sound like 90% of Americans much less residents in Maine and Nevada but an opportunity to vote on this support universal background checks so let’s talk a little bit about what in our ace position is on background checks well first and foremost I want to remind you again that the reason we have a National instant criminal background check system in the United States of America

is because of the interets advocacy it wasn’t the precursor to Christine’s group in 1993 that was calling for a background check but rather they called for a handgun excuse me a five-day waiting period on handgun purchases only with no mandate that a background check be conducted in fact the Supreme Court held that the original law that passed couldn’t commandeer federal resources to conduct a background check so the reason there is a background check in the United States today and has been since November 30th of 1998 was because of the work of the National Rifle Association in those ensuing decades since 1998 we’ve been working and advocating and then lobbying on Capitol Hill to make sure that the records of those individuals who are prohibited under federal law from getting a gun are put into the system because I think we would all agree that a background check is only as good as the data that are in the system one of the glaring omissions that we have in the United States today that the NRA has been working to remedy for quite some time is the records of those whose mental health histories disqualify them from owning a gun the states have not been doing a good job in recent years and putting those files into the background check system so we’ve been trying to work to improve and fix the National instant check system further rather than expanding it to a universe of private citizens many of whom trade or exchange or sell guns among family friends acquaintances or fellow hunters we don’t think that’s the most productive way to reduce violent crime in the United States of America we also advocate that the Knik system have periodic audits to make sure that not only are the appropriate data in the system but that it’s functioning appropriately to make sure that we’re not inadvertently trapping learn snaring otherwise law-abiding citizens who are trying to exercise their constitutional right by going through a background check to purchase a firearm and finally we believe that you should enforce the existing laws on the books in the United States today is illegal afraid for her bit of person to merely even try or attempt to purchase a gun much less get a gun Christine gave an outrageously large number of people who’ve been turned away by failing the background check well anybody who has a prohibiting record in their system and fails a background check the mere act of them of the paperwork and then trying to pass a background check to illegally get a gun is already subject to federal penalties I would be interested to find out of the millions or hundreds of thousands or whatever the number of individual she said failed to pass a background check how many of those individuals have been prosecuted under existing law because I failed to see why we’d want to expand a law if we’re not willing to enforce the existing laws governing purchase of a gun if you fail a background check that we currently have at our disposal so again I want to thank you all for the opportunity for me to present the NRA position and for Jeffrey for hosting this and of course Christine for joining me and Jeff I’ll stand down and be happy to take any questions now thank you got

to make sure I on you myself so everybody can hear me as well unmute Christine as well so we’re all here and first of all round of applause for everybody all everybody online round of applause for our speakers thank you so much for being able to outline the different sides of the very complex and hot topic in today’s day and age so now we’re going to turn it over to the students so students up in the top left-hand corner this is your time to ask questions and I’m gonna I’m gonna kind of go through them please again keep them appropriate and we’re gonna try and get through as many questions as we possibly can because the speakers were wonderful and concise we actually have about another eight minutes that we get to to kind of go through the things you guys want to hear from so our first question is from Steven and he he says why should a husband have to run a background check prior to giving a gun to his wife or son so I’m gonna throw this we’re gonna have both of you kind of tackle this first question and I’m afford to Christine first you know why should a husband have to run a background check prior to giving a gun to his wife or son so I guess what I what I’m trying to understand is the question and just you know you know handing it over to this voice in the kitchen we’re talking about actually selling or transferring a gun I think pets purring ownership is what the student is trying to get by with that question yeah not not just like taking them to go shooting but you know like I guess maybe if a father and son they live in different parts of the state and he wants to transition that over to his son for his son Buse sure absolutely I mean it’s it’s kind of like why you know if I sell my car to a family member I have to abide by laws that at the end of the day are meant to protect everybody so if we have if we require universal background checks to ensure that we keep reducing incidents of gun violence then in situations where it may seem kind of well I know this person I know she’s not a prohibited person I know he’s not a prohibited person there’s there’s nothing wrong with letting the law applying that instance and having the individual go to universal background checks for the sake of the law applying as it should in instances where there might be a problem okay and then to Glenn I mean you’ve touched on this a little bit but further expand on this in the situation there but then what is the stance of why that shouldn’t happen well well obviously I think it’s ludicrous to suggest that family acquaintances and close friends who know one another and know their history should be subject to the same requirements as somebody who is licensed by the government is in the business of selling firearms and this is one of the challenges we have with these laws when they’re written at the state and the federal level is they’re so loosely written that there’s not a clear distinction between a sale and transfer versus loaning a person a firearm versus you know if you’re loaning a gun to

somebody to range in some instances the way state legislation was originally written that would require a background check if you’re loaning somebody a gun to go hunting and your hunting party that loan that Trance would be considered something subject to a background check so really the analogy Christine use about a car I can sell my car to anybody it doesn’t have to be a resident in my state and I don’t have to be a licensed automobile dealer and I don’t have to subject that person to a background check I don’t even have to check if they have car insurance or a driver’s license I’m just selling the legal commodity to somebody else and I think this is a very serious issue that we’re debating and I think at the end of the day we all share the goal that we want to reduce violent crime in America so I don’t think the debate is over the end I think it’s over the mean and I think the time we’re spending talking about universal background checks that I don’t think are going to impact criminals and drug dealers and gangbangers in Chicago or majority of homicides happen is really nibbling at the edges and there are there are bigger more fundamental ways that I think we can reduce crime and I just don’t think universal background checks is the most expeditious way for us to be spending our time because of that the various reasons that I laid out my opening remarks okay thank you both for tackling that question our second question comes from a couple different people kind of asked this Jack and Sam obviously I think everybody’s really aware of Vegas and what happened there and a lot of the question we have right now is is could how could have universal background checks stopped Vegas and so we’ll again we’ll switch this I’m going to Glen you first obviously going the opposite way and then Christine to to to second turn oh yeah I mean obviously it wouldn’t have stopped this shoot is this shooter past myriad background checks by buying his guns from a licensed dealer and at the time of his purchase didn’t have anything in his background to prohibit him from purchasing those firearms I think it’s somewhat irresponsible to speculate what could have been because we still don’t know the motives we still don’t know a lot of the fact the investigations are still going but that’s a perfect example of somebody who underwent multiple background checks yet wasn’t stopped from from inflicting a lot of dark harm and damage on innocent American citizens so I think that’s a perfect example of why background checks while they may be effective in some circumstances certainly are not a panacea and I don’t know what an additional background check could have done to have prevented this particular shooter from from getting his firearms and committing his crimes and Christine sure yeah I mean there’s a background check this guy would have would have a pass background checks there are other laws that can be implemented that would have prevented that would have gone would taken strides to prevent what happened here for example restrictions on how many guns an individual can purchase in the giving month that are on the books and and you know I agree that a background check or that has stopped this and this was a good example also of how background

checks sometimes the things that it’s even is the things that make the front pages it’s tragic and horrific as a Las Vegas shooting was our you know mass shootings are not the end all of gun violence is about I mean it’s the the the the incidence of domestic violence and the suicide where the universal background checks go a long way in and preventing so I’ll leave it at that awesome thank you so much thank you both for answering again a very hot question and you know in writing it’s a tough one you know coming to the next question I’m gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna read the question for both of you and then you’ll have to like take it at different angles just fit the question but I said could you please explain why universal background check would violate due process and we’re gonna go to Christine first and I get for you it would be would violate due process but in what ways do you feel that that beautiful universal background checks don’t impede on due process I don’t think universal background checks and fee on due process at all there are there it’s the process of a background check is very simple there are procedures in place that are that are very easy to follow there there is no there is no due process ramification here so I I don’t know I don’t think they do at all okay awesome I would I would just briefly say that based on the way some of the legislation of various states have attempted to pass these have been written the question of what happened and what is the appeal process under a private transfer somebody’s denied as differentiated from the appeals process the federal level raised some concerns if it’s not clearly clearly state allowed that somebody to have the means to prove that the background check was turned up something that was erroneous and denied them of their rights awesome well thank you thank you ball um so again this and I think this was a tough one and I but so Andrea asks what do you guys feel is the best way to decrease mass shootings so again starting with you Glenn and then over you to Christine you know what were the best ways do you guys filled it it would be to decrease mass shootings in the United States well I think that that using the general term mass shooting ignores the fact that many of these shootings are different and unique and have different sets of circumstances and I think it’s irresponsible to suggest there’s a one-size-fits-all solution to every type of crime that’s committed with a gun I think further it’s responsible to weigh in with public policy prescriptions before we know the facts of an individual case and issue because how can you apply a solution when you don’t get know all the facts and I think sometimes in Las Vegas is a perfect

example we have advocates of gun control jump to conclusions and suggest somehow there was a piece of legislation that could have stopped this individual shooting so I would say in a macro level when it comes to reducing crime as a whole I think a number of ways that we can work to further reduce violent crime in America’s first and foremost enforce the existing tens of thousands of federal state local gun laws we already have in the books christine in our opening remarks specifically mentioned three million individuals who failed a background check well that’s generally a crime to try to pass a background check to buy a gun and be denied how many of those individuals have been prosecuted not three million I can assure you of that so again you have a law on the books that isn’t being enforced I also think we have to take a look at the mental health system in the United States of America well I don’t believe that every mass shooter or every violent criminal is mentally ill I think we’ve seen enough instances where there have been red flags and certain shooters histories or certain criminal histories that there were red flags along the way that were ignored or intervention wasn’t provided or help wasn’t given or in some particular cases maybe removal into an institution wasn’t provided so I do think that we have to rededicate some resources into looking into our nation’s mental health system I don’t certainly suggest that most people who suffer from mental illness or violent people and I would suggest that more often than not if you suffer from mental illness you could be a victim of violent crime but we have seen patterns where certain individuals have had a history of mental health that went untreated or was documented their information wasn’t published into the National instant criminal database so there was no way to screen those individuals out and one final thing that I will mention is I think we have to talk about expanding areas where lawful duly licensed citizens who’ve been trusted by their state that can’t carry a concealed firearm are allowed to carry their gun in public we don’t believe your right to self-defense ends at your doorstep we don’t believe your right to self-defense ends at your state border if you look at the number of individuals who have carry permits in the United States and the number of those individuals that commit a crime you will see that permit teens in the United States of America will commit a crime at about one-sixth of a rate of law enforcement officers these are the most responsible upstanding law-abiding segments of the entire population they’ve gone from background checks they’ve often gone through training they take this responsibility very seriously so I’m not going to suggest in one particular shooting an armed citizen may have prevented further damage but I can tell you there there are scores and scores of mass shootings that have been stopped or the carnage was lessened because there was a good guy with a gun present and we’ve seen studies that show guns are used by law banning Citadel to fence upwards of a million and a half times a year that’s three to five times more often than a gun is used to commit a crime so we believe part of the discussion has to me to make sure that those individuals who exercise the choice to carry a firearm for self-defense don’t have their rights restricted by limiting where they can carry their guns and to make sure they have the right to self-defense with that wherever they have a legal reason a legal right to be

yeah thank you going in Christine so again to read reiterate the question is you know what what best ways do you think are there to implement to decrease mass shootings so you know a mass shooting you know it’s it’s especially at Las Vegas it’s really quite quite trust to talk about it’s really it’s just about the numbers right somebody was able to kill a bunch of people at once and the reasons for it if one said is it’s very difficult to answer this question hypothetically because there are various reasons why people pick up a gun and start shooting and there are various laws that tries to perhaps prevent a person like that from shooting the fact that you know the person killed six or sixty sometimes is because of an intervening circumstance or or just by virtue of the particular situation I will say and this is sort of you know completely off the topic of background checks but bans on things like large capacity ammunition magazines bump stock devices like what was used in the Las Vegas shooting go a long way for venting mass shooting carnage but I think to really answer the question that you really have to have an understanding of who the shooter is and understanding why they should’ve had a gun to begin with to understand how a particular vast shooting are particularly shooting could have been avoided wonderful thank you um this is a side note so Carole said great speeches for both of you so they’re good within all the questions on this one we have one that’s specifically the next question specifically focused on mr. Caroline Andy they asked you brought up the NRA the opposition to a registry they would like to hear the official reason for that position real quick if you have a second there well first of all there’s no crime fighting benefit to registering the firearms of law-abiding citizens and Krim aren’t going to comply with registration requirements things naive to think that somebody who gets a gun illegally and is breaking the law is going to take his gun down to a government agency and fill out paperwork and register it in fact it was a Supreme Court case that said criminals can’t can’t even be compelled to register their firearms because they would be self incriminating themselves by admitting to the government that they’re breaking the law so that’s the first reason there’s no crime-fighting measure secondly we don’t believe in registering constitutional rights I think just from a principle that if this is a right that’s protected from government intrusion registration should be something that’s a mess meant to a

constitutional freedom and one other reason that I will pass along is we have seen instances both here in the United States and states like California cities like New York and in countries around the world that inevitably many government agencies use the one-day registration list to future come back and tax and/or confiscate firearms be it a certain type of firearm rifle be it certain types of firearms handguns and in other countries so no crime fighting benefit it’s led to taxation and confiscation in many cities states and countries around the world and we certainly have a problem with the government keeping a list of people who are exercising a fundamental constitutional right in the United States and over to you Christine I’m just kind of trying to turn that question so you can participate on this one as well I’m not quite sure what is what is the Senators stance on a register on a national registry because I know that background checks in a registry are different in yeah right so I don’t know what your as the stances on that would you like to explain it and then your guys’s viewpoint on on registry so really I’ve been in all the dancer in one sentence I think that registries could go you know not to have a law because we don’t think criminals we don’t abide by the laws for me is never a good reason not to have a law and to the extent that registries can assist law enforcement in unfortunate insisting laws or to trade guns then it’s a it’s a good thing to have and thank you both we’ll start with Christine on this one this is an interesting question from two viescha she would like to know how would be in for a federal universal background checks impact the export of small firearms to other countries I’m not quite sure if we have it after that but our we’ll start with you and then we’ll go to Glenda sure I mean I I think you know exporting a firearms is regular it’s federally regulated and I I can’t say I’ve ever really thought about the connection between the universal on second and thanks for Allah success to the extent that you know I really just don’t want to extrapolate here and make something up but to the extent that we want to preclude people who may be involved and maybe have a criminal record and may be involved in exporting laws we want to know that before these people can buy gun not sure if that really answers answers her question it’s a tough question I don’t know think about that’s a better question when did I think about like borders and what happens with with gun rights and how that affected I mean I I for something could be extremely difficult to export or smuggle a small firearm across but I don’t know if you have any information on them to export

or import firearms requires a high degree of government scrutiny and licenses and I don’t think universal background checks would have any impact on on that whatsoever okay um moving on Charlie maybe I’ll ask how does the current background check system define mentally oh I don’t know if either do you know that and then secondly will this change under a universal background checks and again will starts go ahead and then go to Christine on this one general prohibitions based on mental health disqualification would be somebody who’s been adjudicated as mentally incompetent that means a judicial body has found them a danger to him or herself or others or somebody who’s been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution I don’t think the definitions unless a new law was written to expand the category of people my understanding would be in most cases those who are prohibited under the current like the FFL the federal licensed dealer background check would probably be similar to that in the universal background check but I do think while we do have a discussion of mental health we do have to tread very carefully to make sure that we protect people’s privacy and due process rights you know we need to make sure that we’re not discouraging people who want to go get psychiatric help because they’re afraid that they were going to lose their gun rights but if somebody does fall into the prohibited mental healthcare category I think we all agree that at minimum that data should be put into the system so if those people go through a background check they can be screened out accordingly and Christine yeah I mean it’s a pretty objective question I don’t really have any danger dad took one to answer he you got the wall right so fairly objective law so we’ll start with you on this one and you can cover all of it and if there’s any missing Greg can chime in but what kind of crimes would someone have to commit in order to make it them unable to buy a gun so what are your things that really automatically take you off the ability to buy a gun sure so you have to any felon any any felony that you’ve committed inhibits you from being able to buy a gun federal law also preclude anybody who has been convicted of a domestic violence misdemeanor from possessing Persinger possessing a gun some of the states found the federal law to be not broad enough when it comes to domestic violence misdemeanors and they’ve extended the definition of what it means to be at the best domestic violence misdemeanants under the law and then there are other the federal law as well that has to do with you know your if you’ve been discharged from the military dishonorably if you are a few different

justice alien I don’t have the statute in front of me but and then the ones that we talked about a felony which is probably the biggest one oh and um and there is also prohibition against drug use people with a history of drug use anything else any anything else on there one yeah there are certain plans I mean is that if they carry with it a prison sentence but I believe two years are longer that’s a disqualifier whether or not you serve the prison sentence is irrelevant but just to clarify how the process works theater about I’m gonna say roughly a dozen disqualifying categories under federal law and when you go to purchase a gun from a licensed dealer again which is how a majority of the transfers that American citizens get their guns you feel it what’s called a federal form 4473 you have to check up under penalty under oath that you’re that you don’t fall into any of those prohibited categories and the background check is what you just kind of confirm that awesome so moving on are there any tangible harms of a background check that’s to viescha asked this one as well I don’t know where any harms and what starts going and then go to Christine Schurman well let me first say that our government shouldn’t be in the business of passing laws because it won’t do any harm we should be passing laws because we see a documented benefit while respecting constitutional freedoms but there have been many many thousands of Americans who have gone through a background check that have clean criminal records but because their name is similar to somebody who’s prohibited have had their rights denied or delayed so that is definitely a risk but I think the better question is as I said earlier why should the government be passing lunches because it won’t do any harm and my question would be and I think I’ve made it clear is what good is expanding a database that is in need of repair and updates to an additional universe of people who really don’t pose a significant threat and or are not the type of people that are going to subject themselves to a background check anyhow and are going to get guns illegally to accept the black market or straw purchases and in Christina you know any tangible harms of background checks or that proof that viewpoint on that no I don’t see any tangible harms in requiring background checks and the extent of gun violence in in America certainly justifies any any minor incidents of any rights being delayed yeah thank you thank you both thank you both I don’t know and I’m just gonna throw this I mean we Peggy ass do we know what the financial cost of a background check is and I’ll start with Christine I’m not quite sure to you do we know what the finance what constant background check is I mean III don’t off top my head I would have to actually look it up I don’t know when do you know well the cost varies by state some states run their own point of contact background check or require additional fees but the operation by the FBI and

government agencies to run this is a vast expenditure for the United States taxpayer and we are the ones who pay for so it is a significant outlay for the government to do and awesome thank you and then what’s ours Christine on this one I what does a background check and tail for the kids so I think some of them don’t quite know what what happens with the step you know step back that process and is it done differently in different settings in the stem sale and then go ahead and we’ll go back to you after Christine sure so um we’re willing to work with their federal law if if and we’ll just take a simple example of you walk into a federal federally licensed gun dealer and you want to buy a gun you you fill out the form that Glenn’s reference and you fill out certain information on that form the gun dealer contacts the FBI is mixed system and that your personal information gets run through three databases and to be sure that no hits come up meaning you’re not falling into any of these categories that are prohibited under federal or state law so what then is the dealer will receive an answer using a very very short amount of time a matter of minutes usually that either you can proceed with the sale you cannot proceed with the sale because ahead has come up or there something has come up in the in the search and the FBI needs to research it a bit more so that’s just a basic example of of a simple federal background search now there are some states that run their own database as well so you have then information being processed through the state databases as well as the FBI’s databases which gives a much more accurate result yeah I would just add I think that’s a fairly accurate assessment I think Nevada is a good example of a referendum was passed calling for these so-called universal background checks and the federal government said we are not going to be conducting background checks on behalf of the state so that law is a little bit in limbo additionally some states above and beyond the background check may have a waiting period before the transfer takes place which is something that we oppose my home state of Virginia where I’m speaking to you today doesn’t so that once I pass a background check as I’ve done many times I can take ownership of the firearm itself and one thing I just want to make clear that I did mention at the outset of my remarks but I believe it bears repeating is the location of the transfer is irrelevant what dictates the background check is that it’s a transfer from a licensed dealer to a citizen which is the majority of transfers so it doesn’t matter if it’s in a gun show a flea market at the dealer’s house at a gun shop the location of the transfer isn’t what dictates the background check is to transfer from a licensed dealer to an individual that dictates the background check must be conducted awesome thank

you and then so we up on the next question and I don’t know I I apologize I was reading the questions I don’t know if you guys tackle this when you have the on a federal level who conducts the background checks did we tackle that in that last one the FBI I think Christine’s mentioned it in the number of her answers as well yeah awesome so coming down we have so I have one for each it looks like a jack pose one to Christine and then Andrew pose one to to Glenn will so Christine first uh Jackson’s Christine says other laws could have prevented I think he’s talking about the mass shooting said this but what are these laws so I guess they were like a little bit more description of other laws that could have prevented the mass shooting I’m assuming are we talking about Las Vegas or messiness in general what they’re alluding to okay so I think I had mentioned a few of those before so you know again it’s really hot and as Glenn pointed out it’s really challenging in retrospect to say this law could have prevented the shooting that law has prevented the shooting because it’s it you just don’t know it’s almost tough to talk about that in light of the victims because it just seems very unfair and this happened and we can’t go back it’s unfortunate but when you look at laws that that maybe could have a decrease with significance of what happened and once I had mentioned before are for example laws that reduced the amount of weapons the person can buy with me given amount of time laws that restrict the kind of ammunition or a magazine that an individual can have for example a large capacity ammunition magazine there are studies that have demonstrated that large capacity ammunition magazine certainly increased the carnage at mass shootings there are regulations against the kinds of devices that turn a semi-automatic weapon into a machine gun which is basically what happened in Las Vegas that permitted such a rapid fire that ended up killing so many people so again just and you know I think one was really right what he said this that when you talk about the yes unity you we do so with with a degree of respect for what happens not to talk about them hypothetically because they really really happens and even to take a step back and think how they could have prevented this is difficult as well but these are just one of the ideas that for me it comes to mind let me to talk about the particular my Las Vegas thank you

and Glenn the question posed to you from Andrew was looking at like you were talking about how other gun laws ago unforced should be enforced and so what is stopping those laws that aren’t being enforced right now from being enforced or what’s the big barriers that are kind of given the way of that well my initial answer is I don’t know I don’t know what the values of having along the books that isn’t going to be enforced and I don’t know why you wanted you wouldn’t want to enforce an existing law against a criminal but I do know in the eight years that we had President Obama and his Judy his Justice Department we saw a decrease in weapons prosecutions of all kind I think now we’re seeing under attorney general session that there is a renewed focus and effort on enforcing existing laws against criminals and I would suspect that if the Trump administration is able to do that you are going to see a drop in crime because we’ve seen the most expeditious and I think most common sensical way to reduce gun crime is to target the lawbreakers and use the tools that we have at our disposal which cover virtually any any type of illegal activity with a gun right now and make sure they are strictly and swiftly enforced we saw that in the late 1990s in Richmond Virginia that has one of the highest violent crime rates in the nation and the federal state law enforcement community collaborated together and didn’t call for the enactment of another gun law on top of the thousands that we already have but did have a commitment to say that when we find a criminal who has a gun illegally in his or her possession were you going to arrest them we’re going to prosecute them and if they are convicted they are going to do a mandatory minimum sentence for the mayor actively illegally possessing a firearm in and of itself and we saw a precipitous precipitous drop not only in gun crime in Richmond Virginia but violent crime and I think that’s a very strategic and smart way to help reduce gun violence quickly by targeting at the crime who’s continuously breaking the existing laws we have uh next Thank You Glenn and Thank You Christine for both touching those questions director right at you guys I’m on the spectrum watching the course is asking is there a way that background checks to prevent against unregistered guns or illegally acquired guns Emmitt house so and so we’ll jump to Glenn and then back to Christine shoot well III think that’s one of the major shortcomings of the topic that we’re discussing that you know law-abiding citizens are going to comply with background check requirements they currently do right now they are not the issue in the United States of America but the element that we all want to control the criminal population are not going to subject themselves to universal background checks you know there are going to be more people shot in Chicago probably in the next week or two that in any mass shooting was going to read about in recent months and I promise you that the the individuals have committing those crimes in Chicago or Detroit and New Orleans or Los Angeles or wherever may be happening in crime is concentrated in certain urban areas they are not going to subject themselves to transyl background check when they transfer still guns among one another so I think

we need to find better ways to make sure we’re having the existing laws we have our disposal targeted at the criminal element that we know is breaking the law and when somebody does break the law there is a consequence and that the gun charge is in plea bargain down to that person’s back on the street for you to commit countless more crimes and then Christine follow up on any I mean you know I’ll just point out again at the time when we started that you know without the requirement of universal background checks you know guns end up in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them it does if it takes it one step further that the private party gun market has long been recognized as a leading source of guns used in crime so there there is no there is no downside to she’s stopping that market from getting any bigger awesome so we’re at the end of our time it blew by I first of all just so all students understand this is a complex topic okay so I think I think what Christine and Glenn would would back me up on this with this don’t be ignorant do research like really look into this stuff before you just start you know go into town with people so again when you’re going into your fate in the debates make sure that you know come back watch our recording look more into it I think it’s it was it’s I think that’s part of the issue with in America is if people don’t do enough research and Christine and when both their lives are focused on on these issues so thank you again for for joining us tonight really quick just so everybody knows we hold a debate preparation webinar anytime a new topic from the anesthesia is released so we’d love you to go to our website the Bill of Rights Institute org and you can go there and we have a tab for well we have a underneath the engage tab is a place for debate webinars and you guys can look at all the upcoming dates where we will hold another webinar to all of the resolutions that you guys are are debating again one last thank you to both Christine and Glen um really for taking your time out tonight we know it’s not always the easiest especially with this topic right to get in the same room in to talk and you guys were both wonderful thank you so very much you’re welcome okay without no further ado I’m gonna switch the screen over we’re gonna say goodbye and I have a very wonderful and safe night Christine England I’m mr. Tovar for every way we’re have a quick survey for all of the participants who are here tonight hey Geoffrey thank you Thank You Jessica I was I was going to suggest on each of

the students but that’s okay we can they can hear me so I guess what I just wanted to point out is you know Glenn’s organization in my organization we both maintain really good websites on our different perspectives on this area of the law so to educate yourself on this I would really suggest that you go to both of those websites and really understand two sides that you can you know figure out how to debate this I just wanted to point out their website because I think we both have really very good website thank you that was it Thanks yeah okay take care okay