Debating Catalonia Independence | Public Forum

0:00 the idea of this presentation is to do a little trip through through history and to try to understand a little bit more about Catalonia who what’s Catalonia and what’s going to happen in the next few few months I think the presentation is going to last about 30-40 minutes please feel free to ask any questions while I’m doing the presentation and I will answer them accordingly and without further hesitation I’m hesitation we’re going to start the presentation and I’m also wondering and you can answer that of the chat if you what do you know about Spain or if you have been to Catalonia I’m going to

0:47 pause the video and I’m going to start reading the presentation well so as I said we’re going to do a historical and political introduction to Catalonia the table of contents is the following we’re going to talk about key data of Catalonia Spain we’re gonna go to the historical highlights particularly those historical highlights that are important for Catalonia and nationalism and then we’re going to talk about the Constitution Spanish Constitution and the Institute which is the regional law will we’ll talk about the different parties some of them are very interesting and then we’ll review the

1:34 best happen in the last three four months three months and then we’ll talk about the next elections which are on December 21st just around the corner well to begin is to say that Spain is a very modern and decentralized country it’s a parliamentary parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy the king usually do not doesn’t play a big role but as we saw recently in Spain what he is spoken to be the king play a big role and Spain is divided in seventeen autonomous governments autonomous community : and each community is like an estate in the u.s. has a different level of powers the Spain is considered high and

2:25 advanced democracy weeks 8.3 verse out of 10 points and France is seven point eight and gentleman is eight point six and The Economist one of the economies index it also has a very advanced high one of the highest political and civil rights right by the Freedom House with 95 percent is the 14th or 19th economy depending on the on the type of if it’s persistent power or it has a high level of life expectancy 82 and of course it has the world’s best Southern League and as you see in the map not only you can

3:11 see the flags of the different autonomous but also the main soccer teams and it’s relevant because in Barcelona many people say that if we become independent we will have to leave this planet Liga and that simply a deterrent because we want to be there so Spain Catalonia has the size of the state of Maryland more or less an economy similar to Denmark one of the highest GDP per capita in Spain in relation to Spain it’s only six point three of the Spanish state but has sixteen percent of the population and

4:00 almost 25% of all tourists have come to Spain they just cross the border from France into Spain also exports it’s a very export-oriented economy 25 percent of of its economy go to exports and in terms of foreign direct investment into Catalonia in they they take almost 30% of all the direct investment in in Spain so it’s a an attractive location within Spain and in fact Catalonia has probably the highest with Madrid and the Basque Country GDP per

4:47 capita of almost 30 thousand euros and as you see there’s an imbalance within its pain that some regions are have a higher GDP per capita than others and that has been in fact a cause of of concern for for Spain because one of the issues that has been fueling this secession movement is the idea that Catalonia pays a lot of taxes to the common pot who will measure it to be distributed between the regions but we do not get back as much as we should as

5:34 much as they should and the topic Spain robust Spain still tower over sweater work has been a paradigm used by some politicians in Catalonia to steer nationalism the 2008 crisis was affected to Spain strongly but it affected everyone no social cuts have to be done and we have a question here I think it’s a good question since Madrid has a higher GDP shouldn’t they be in the same

6:20 position well it’s a good question and in fact some people in Madrid are not too happy no but I think overall they say ok I understand that because I am the capital or because the term specific industrial policies have been favoring some parts of his plane versus others it’s it’s okay to be to have a solidarity between the regions oh yeah and of course the Catalonia has had because that’s not the only issue of Catalonia in fact no that’s what has been fueling the independent but it’s not the only issue and some of people in Madrid are

7:06 complaining but in general and also in Catalonia great do people think it’s okay to to finance or to help somebody that hasn’t had the same the same GDP per capita and also very important it’s not the region that is paying this money’s not the original is not Catalonia this transferrin molecule to the common pot it’s it’s individuals it’s at the individual level that you’re being taxed so Catalonia is not being taxed Madrid is not being taxed so models of the impacts is it depends on the wealth of the individual and

7:53 and I for Catalonians nationally history is very very important it’s a way to to say that hey because the history I have the right to be an independent oh and when I was in in the Jewish la vía some years ago every time I talk to somebody and wanted to understand a little bit the situation he went back 3,000 years ago and I thought I was gonna do this here but in a very civilized way and of course Catalonia has a long history and we had the Romans coming to Spain on the 3rd 2nd century BC Romans enters to the

8:41 north of Spain on the meter running in fact by Catalonia and they call that region that region was called Hispania then they created through the passage of time they created different different regions and they eventually was Spanish interior and then spanning out winter you’re spanning Exeter was like the Catalonia which was the nearby españa and spanning from far away was the most of the rest of Spain then we had the Visigoths invasions would people in Spain felt it was a continuation of the of Hispania and then 17 in this in the year 712 we have the Muslim invasion

9:28 that finishes in Spain least that was the feeling at the time that this plane had been destroyed the what happened was that all the the north of Spain became few kingdoms independent kingdoms began to fight back to reconquer Spain Catalonia became coal coal was called something called the Hispanic mark which was like a buffer Kingdom between France and the Muslims and eventually those count on different nobility that this worry is now Catalonia became joint forces together through family marriages mostly and the kingdom

10:15 of Aragon was created Aragon it right now it’s another autonomous community to the west of Catalonia then and through that process barcelona became one of the bridgehead for the expansion in the mediterranean of the kingdom of Aragon and Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile eventually they merge they merit and they created a single monarchy for spank something called the monarchy expand occur throughout King since the fall of his pain to the to the Muslim invasion there was always the sense of recreating the Hispanic the Roman single unity but this but something very

11:02 important to point here is that yes we had Spain had one single royal family but the kingdom’s themselves didn’t merge its kingdom maintain lost language and whatnot although languages were mixed between the kingdom’s so so the kingdom of the intrinsically the history of Catalonia is intrinsically connected to Spain and to the rest of Europe and I’m now going to talk about two different events which are important for Catalonia one is called the 1640 peasant revolt in Catalan is the saiga doors war that is inscribe within the thirty years

11:49 war a very bloody European conflict that began by religious difference between Protestants and Catholics but as you know spelled into an all-out European war in Spain and in fact the kingdom of Castilla was bleeding out by trying to keep up the different territories belonging to Spain in the enthralled Europe and the king decided to do something called uni on the which is join join forces and that imply that the kingdom of Aragon where Catalan noise also had to be taxed and had to be drafted and there was people didn’t like

12:36 that the economy was in very poor shape and the Castilian forces were in Catalonia by then and there was a great deal of unhappiness the peasants on the on June on the corpus of sank the bloody corpus enter into Barcelona they kill the Viceroy they killed many politicians and ask for secession they reach out to the King of France asking them if he could be considered king of of Catalonia or not Catalonia Catalonia but the benzylic he said no

13:22 way and he said he he that Catalonia can be part of France and then when the French soldiers arrived to Catalonia they were very very not good and eventually Catalonians themselves said that they don’t want to be under the French rule and the the we pay a high cost because we lost video of territories north of the Pyrenees that and that settle for almost forever the schism the border between Spain and France and few years later on 1714 at

14:10 the beginning of the 18th century the last king of the house of House Joe of the heart works died without the sentence Europe started a war to decide who was going to be the new king what family was going to be and there were two contenders again candidates from the House of Austria the king the son of the of the of the King of France the King of France Phillips the fifth of bourbon was supported mostly by castile which is the east part of spain the west part of spain and sovereign and the kingdom of

14:56 Aragon supported Austria they both saw that the best for Spain was different different options different monarchies and then we have a key element on the history of Catalonia which is the siege of Barcelona on when the Castilian troops entered the city on September 11th there was a that finished that finished the adventure and the support of the Austrian King and eventually are going to kingdom of Aragon and went back to to be part of the same thing there was also an effect here an

15:41 important something to consider here is that after the French King came to power and remember the Catalonian had had a previous experience with the French a few years earlier that was dramatic francium behave misbehave greatly so there was another reason why the people of Aragon or or Catalonia didn’t like having a French King but eventually they supported Rafael de Casanova which was the hero of the revolt of the support of the for the for the Austria’s was pardon he died in his home he receive a pension

16:28 the anistar the huge growth for Catalonia as a result of the noah planted decree but that noah planted a tree truly yes it opened the market for catalog for Catalonian businessmen the markets of the americas mostly and unified the laws make a more modern nation but a high cost for many for example with all laws all the laws of aragorn were lost not all of them whether a big chunk of the old laws were lost in favor of homogeneous Castilian law that people

17:14 did not really like but quickly after this these new modern law despite the cultural aspect make the catonian grow very fast and one thing that i think it’s important to to the spanish that from the point of view of those men then many of them were when they were fighting they were fighting for a better spain not necessarily an independent but for spain that they liked not the one that they want to the French wanted to impose quickly after we have idea the late early 19th century the French invaded again Spain and the Spanish

18:03 resistance was very fierce you have the creation of the guerrilla where the name comes from very heroic defense of the country in Girona it’s a Catalonian city Sara gelser Cadiz and during those years we have our first concert Spain has the first constitution 1812 and that drafted in the south of Spain in Catalonia I’m sorry in Cadiz which was in Andalusia and by then cutting was it’s an island so they were able to defend themselves there and wrap this constitution where their first president was a Catalonian the souls and one of the key writers was

18:49 Jose Spiga strong Catalonian influence and the role of the kingdom of Aragon in drafting these new constitution was important and this new constitution really pushed farther the home own home to make a more homogeneous Kingdom and was a constitution that included both Spaniards Spanish from Spain and these paintings from the Americas and as a result of that it said note that interesting to the point in every single town of the kingdom America and Europe it was asked to set up a monument to honor this Constitution and after the absolute king came they he requested to destroy every

19:38 single monument and the only one to my understanding left is the one in the city of San Agustin in Florida and I put that picture there if you go to Florida go see that that monument to the Constitution so the Napoleon Napoleon is defeated he leaves Spain but that invasion really really hurt Spain it destroyed Spain and it began a year a whole century the 19th century that it’s full of civil wars and it’s just a big mess and at the same time you have which is very very important for the topic that we are discussing here you have the

20:26 expansion of German Romanticism within Spain and in Catalonia and as you may know romanticism brought back the history of the Middle Ages it was a they want to make the Middle Ages an ideal time for Europe and also the rebirth of the language of the Catalonian language and that is where the modernist Catalonia nationalism as war and had an in point that it was almost an over at some point it was a 1892 spanish-american war where were Spain lost most of the colonies that had left

21:14 the Philippines Cuba Dominican and a few other islands and Spain began again a process of economical disease and many people in Catalonia not many people few people in Catalonia began to think well we just don’t want to be here this is a bad spain is a bad deal in lieu of that you have people like President Wilson expanding the idea of self-determination with after for his fourth important and whatnot so nationalist movement begins to grow in Spain in Catalonia early 19th century late late 19th century early 20th century and then we have the Second

22:00 Republic of Spain after Tomatis few years and in 1931 and 1934 there’s a pooch were a Catalan state within the Federal Republic is being established it was proclaimed and fell in 1934 but and that was the last time that there was this issue until now and as you know the Spanish Republic John led to the Spanish Civil War it was a very bloody war right right before the World War two that that prevented Spain from participating fully and Catalonia and Spain began a long

22:51 dictatorship until 1975 suppressions of political liberties the autonomous government of Catalonia that had been established during the Republic goes to exile the Catalan language that has become official doing the along with the Spanish during the Republic in suppressed and that is combined with a huge tremendous economic growth and many people for a while for bread about these nationalist movement who was the one who triggered economic growth of the new laws well the economic growth was

23:39 treated by by Spain with their economic policies of investment favouring particularly favorite regions in Spain one was Catalonian Madrid and the Basque Country those were the region that were mostly favors there was a policy of high tariffs so that favouring the businessmen office of Catalonia know the cause of other businessmen that were not benefited by free trade Spain is open to tourism beginning in the nineteen fifties and by 1975 we had 40 million

24:27 tourists tourists coming from Europe so it’s pained yes it was a dictatorship but it was very much open people could leave and calm as they please and and there was a very very strong economic growth I I type in eleven percent of GDP growth it’s something in time every need to double check this number but I thought it was something completely insane and eventually 1975 Franco dies and a new constitution is drafted the team of seven men drive this constitution two of them Catalonians one is on the Catalonia member joschwa party and the other solitude is a

25:14 communist I think what I’m trying to present here is that Catalonians have been involved very much throughout history on and have had leading roles this the autonomous government is reinstated destitute the lot of loss as well the Spanish Constitution it’s approved in 1978 with 91 91 percent of the of the ports of Catalonians so very very much supported and it’s a very Lee this constitution is very modern very progressive article one says that the national sovereignty of Spain we hopes

25:59 on the Spanish people but at the same time recognizes the rights of the autonomous and nationalities and regions to to have their own laws under the principles of solidarity and it’s a constitution that is sure very progressive and allows the possibility of secession but which is rare because not that many persecutions allow that thing in Europe a thing only Luxembourg lynches turn here but mmm not good but if you want to do a change you need at least two thirds of the chamber of the

26:46 house of the Spanish house to do amendments on the Constitution for allowing for for secession or a referendum through these new democracy producer the stars in 1975 Catalonia accumulates a tremendous amount of state responsibilities to the point that the state of his pain and that has very little presence the state of his pain is represented by the autonomous government Education Culture TVs radios the

27:31 healthcare police ports export promotion agencies labor anything you can imagine so there’s not a little there’s not that much room for further decentralization and it’s hard to content if you what you want is independence sir you like more more devolution of powers more powers back to you to your state or to your region but when there’s no more you do one Independence Mall and for the last four years 40 years since democracy usually nationalist nationalist or socialist government that had power in

28:18 Catalonia and they have follow a very aggressive policy of expand expanding the Catalan language very aggressively first of all in the schools in Catalonia the only language is Catalan no Spanish when probably 60% of population speak Spanish there’s I think two hours a week where you can speak Spanish in school at one teachers can teach Spanish but is usually not fulfill one of the questions for that we ask at all is where is the right of self-determination we want to have the right of self-determination we

29:03 speak a different language sure but this UN right of self-determination it’s more focused on over the colonies for a military invasion occupation systematic violation of Human Rights is that what Catalonia has many people would think so particular if you are independent independent is but others do not think so one of the issues of Europe is that there are about 200 languages speaking spoken in Europe and Europe fears that if each territory has an independent language becomes independent can be a progressed Catalonia itself has

29:49 three different languages official languages one of the are there any human rights violation by the Spanish in Catalonia well as I said I mean Spain has one of the highest records on our human rights respectfulness No so I doesn’t seem to be to happen these of this from the international community they do not see Spain as a human rights violator and one

30:37 of the questions of many of my succession is friend has it we just want to know we just want to know be a referendum if the majority wants to be independent or not the problem is that the Constitution does not allow for this referendum and on the other hand in the last six years Catalonia has had I think about five elections five elections were its outline in the constitution of Arkansas’s it no it’s not a blind that the part can sub C is not outlined but you could change it through legal means unlike over most of other nations in Europe well you do not you’re

31:22 specifically not allowed to to secede in Spain you could succeed but you have to do it legally and that was not the case why won’t they allow it or they allow it but you but it’s but it’s hard you have to have a minimum from minimum amount of floats in in Congress to allow for a referendum and in fact we had a problem with a few years ago we had a referendum government said it’s not binding but there was a big big effort to do this referendum pre before the one we had just had and after that referendum there were

32:09 elections and they were called a plural site elections and together for yes but we’ll see in a little bit they got 47.8% of the boats so doesn’t seem to be a majority of the people in Catalonia wishing to become independent when but when we had that clever side election together for yes the Catalan government thought okay that’s a mandate that is telling us that we should become independent so which is going to become independent no referendum or anything yes that’s the plural side somewhere along the line we got cold feet and they

32:55 said okay we have to do a referendum again and that will happen on September 6 and 7 of this year’s 2015 that this 47.8% of votes which in terms of seat in the Catalonian congress are majority and felt that they were empowered to establish a transition law to have a referendum on October 1st the opposition was very upset because in the Catalonia and regional is the were in the spain’s congress you have to do that first in

33:40 spain because they are people of the Constitution says that the sovereignty of sovereignty of Spain relies on the Spanish people and the seat of the Spanish people is in the general Congress in Madrid and I’m sorry to be described here I was answering the question the the infant in September 6th and 7th there was this new transition law and a referendum and the problem that if you want to change any substantial in the Catalonian Parliament you need you need two-thirds of the votes and this one they did it with a much lower threshold they get rid of the

34:27 Spanish Constitution and our local regional laws and they merge against the opinion of the legal service of the chamber of the two main parties and whatnot one example that I have is that say Texas I don’t know if any of you is from Texas and you get 51 percent of the feet but only 48 percent of the boats the two main parties in Texas Republicans and Democrats are against that the Constitutional Commission in that in the in the Texas House is against that the Supreme Court is against independence but you still go ahead and do our friend so that’s a

35:17 similarity so we have a referendum on October 1st and the referendum clearly failed failed because didn’t have the appropriate controls you could vote multiple times and it fell because the Spanish estate Spanish government did their most to block it they went to the ite control system they believe it they weaken it and and everybody realized that it fell and but it was considered ballots and independent was proclaim or something was proclaimed no and many

36:04 people think that it was a big mistake by Catalonian succession to give ballot that referendum that referendum many argue should have been said ok the Nationalists should have said well we tried but we it didn’t work because the Spanish government didn’t let us have our referendum in in the right order so we cannot accept it and we’re gonna do it the game but by saying yes by giving credibility to that referendum and that I think they missed an opportunity for the future and so eventually eventually there was a

36:55 president puts them on now in Brussels they will they declare their independence but in a very little bit obscure way and it has led to it led to very massive satisfaction around people have wanted independence about people that didn’t want independence about companies who just big mess and and indeed it has an immediate effect Catalonia became for over 3,000 companies have changed their social address to other parts of the country social other doesn’t imply you just change your your address and you can also change your physical address which

37:42 many have to and once you have once you change these things eventually the government say that you cannot say that you are from one province and and do the business in the other so so it’s going to have a huge impact also as a result of praxis the FVA of Europe the Drug Administration of Europe that was in London left and Barcelona had all the chances to win it was a thousand and a staff of over thousand good jobs and about 50,000 people coming every year to see that institution and and we amber Solana losted many of in a personal

38:30 level many of my friends have done very well with Airbnb in Barcelona a few houses that they rent personal as a very highly attractive location well tourism is Alice Alice top no another of tourism going on so I think these things are going to effect the the next elections truly many people think well this is like a divorce in the short time it’s very bad but eventually it’s very good we’ll see we have new elections soon on December 21st just around the corner and and it’s gonna be

39:19 difficult because the composition of the Catalonian Parliament it is very very personal this is here I don’t know if you can if you can see the screen but this is basically a picture of the Catalonian Catalonian house single camera no Senate this house on the left side and you have people who are favoring independence and on the right people that are not favored independence so it’s a very very split very very split situation and the parties are just

40:06 very diverse – you have parties like a scarer Republic Canada Catalonia it’s an inn it’s a corner it’s a party born in the nineteen thirties involved in the in the session movement of the nineteen thirties very left very strong on rural areas we are mostly Catalan Catalan speakers speaking areas and for these new elections they have decided not to to renew the the alford yes alliance Jules person there are key political leaders

40:53 are in jail waiting for trial then mr. John Kallis who was with the vice president of Catalonia after this mess that he presented himself to the court and was was arrested and that’s having a also an impact right now in the in the new elections like coop coop which is like a string communist party is part of the Alliance for independence it’s very assembly driven communist type of party also you have within this this

41:43 political process institution like omnium and assembly ax and a sonatas Apollonia which they have received millions of millions of those are non boring institutions but they have received millions and millions of euros and they are one of the motors driving the public money they have received public money they are one of it they are the drivers for for independence no they promote rallies and everything you can imagine and kaboom for them is another party that those are Spanish communists so they can go either way the penalties or not is generally

42:29 they’re really not pro-independence but their progress friendly and then you have the Socialist Party it’s an old party and they’re not not for independence but they are open for a constitutional reform they in the past have had alliances of God in government they have been in government with scarer republicana with the left with with Catalonia and left from there then you have partido popular which is the current government in Madrid they have a diminishing presence in in Catalonia

43:15 peril and their boats are partly sea phone into the partido socialista into the socialist and into this new group called citizens which is a liberal libertarian party that was born in Catalonia as a reaction to do the secession movement and now they have presents throughout the Spain so we’re going to have a new election this is a forecast for for next week elections it’s a poll so it seems going to be a sea change where nationally

44:01 secession is loose the majority in Congress the number of seats but also again in the number of boats the largest party the largest party it seems is going to be silly Allah knows which is the Libertarian Party and socialist on the constitutional side which is on the right are behind and then party popular keeps losing presence on the left as you can see on the under arch this je+ see that that was the union of these two

44:48 parties Scarah republicana and and this other parties you Jews for Catalonia together for Catalonia together for Catalonia I didn’t I didn’t have his name before but it’s a party that has been in power for 30 years and they big trouble and they have to change every time their name in the last few elections because they are very corrupt they have a systemic corruption of every public work that was done in Catalonia and most of many of their politicians are in jail one one opinion of many people is that this independence has also been a drive to

45:35 to become independent and then move away from from the law and not go to jail as a result for the corruption so basically there’s a shrinking minority in the polls of no independent is power dependent ist’s the I’m 15 to finish this presentation it doesn’t really matter if the history shows that there were Catalonians or not Catalonians who were doing the revolutions in the 17th in 16th century it is a matter of what you think many people are seeing that we should be kappa we should become

46:20 independent but many other do not agree and to have such a substantial change you need a substantial majority the schools the government is very much controlled not by nationalists and we’ll see what happens with these possible change in the government I many people think that all these session is it’s scary no the moment you start playing with nationalism things can go wrong I mean it’s Catalonia plays with nationalism Spain could play with my salvation and why not Germany those are

47:08 a little bit of scary times but after the after the proclamation of independence the Spanish state apply article 155 of the Constitution which basically reset the political game that’s why we’re having new elections many people suggested that it was too soon to percent elections but the Spanish government thought that it was the right thing to do it as fast as it was legally possible and that’s what they did let’s see what happens and let you ask any other question if you have more questions thank you so much

47:59 Catalan independence would be on FCI 400 to Catalonia and to spine as a whole and to Spain as a whole well that’s an excellent question because I think it affects Catalan it’s gonna affect Spain no I I would invest in Catalonia right now I was thinking buy an apartment I’m taking about taking a break now I think the price is going to go down and I am Sonia so I think there’s gonna be a happy Madrid and the rest of the Spain is gonna benefit of the loss of investment in Catalonia but that’s a

48:44 hope I think this train will move as well are there any benefits for Spain in Catalonian games independence well to get rid of a headache but but I don’t see I don’t see any benefit I wonder if you you think of any have any of you been to Barcelona before

49:42 is there any chance an independent Catalonia would let be back another excellent question I do not think that Catalonia would be back into the European Union partly because you need the consensus of all member countries and Spain being a member country I don’t think would be trying to say yes any time soon and as I said and all Europe have Europe has over 200 languages and nationalities so I think it would be a I mean first we had the Scotland now we have Catalonia it would be a very bad signal to let Catalonian get in it could lead to a

50:33 multiplication of little regions and states within Catalonia we have different people that would not like to be in Catalonia yes I do think that Catalonia dependence could freeze all boxes yeah I do think so about communication also not only also led to war no I mean let’s let’s not let’s not forget that the idea of the European Union was an idea to move away from from from Wars no I’m from nationalism so that I’m going back to another question what would be the effect of independence beyond trade I think would be a horrible effect I mean first let’s this we have to think

51:20 that the main trading partner of Catalonia is not France it’s not Germany it’s not Italy is a lagoon right across the river it’s Spain and if you are if you go independent the trade policies of Spain are set by the European Union so even though maybe we would like to be able to trade with Catalonia they would have to go into the least favored nation or trade standards so that would be it would make their products very expensive in addition to having a awful barriers on between Spain and Catalonia

52:11 Catalonian wants independence not baske another a very good question well there are many people in the basque country that that likes that would like to be independent it is true that it is true that the basque country you